Night distress

[josie&holly]

what happens if she sleeps in a pen enclosure or a crate in your bedroom?

She does sleep in a way in a pen as her bed is between my bed and the wall and then I have part of a pen blocking the end so she cannot wander in night. She hates been in a crate though when first got her sed one but she was not happy.

[pkcrossley]

eek. spooky. there is some reason she wants to get you out of the bedroom. have you had it checked for contaminants? CO2? excessive electromagnetic frequency? or some kind of high frequency noise contamination, as suggested earlier.

Edited January 20, 2014 by pkcrossley

[hheldorfer]

I've been following this topic but haven't had anything to add. I sure hope thing improve soon. You poor thing, Josie, you must be exhausted!

[Hawkeye]

I also do not have much to add, but have been following this topic.  Thinking of you and Holly and wishing you much needed rest.

[Idaho Cairns]

In my limited experience, only one thing unhinges an otherwise "normal" Cairn to the degree that they would chew thru a wooden barrier to seek escape--some highly pitched electronic sound beyond the range of human hearing.  My Sammi is usually a calm and collected little character but when she experiences unexpected electronic sounds or voices--smoke alarms, electronic voice messages, intrusion alarms that sound unexpectedly she starts to pant, gets wide eyed, and panics.  I have spoken of this before on this forum.  If I experienced what your Holly suddenly exhibited, these kind of signals would be my first suspect--I would look for  electronic source of some sort--perhaps a smoke alarm in the proximity that is emitting an infrequent beep because the battery is weakening, a CO2 alarm, etc., either in your home or the neighbor's.  I have noticed as I have aged that I cannot hear these types of signals myself, even if my wife and the dogs can so it would be an easily explainable situation if the dog because restive over a sound that was beyond my hearing.

Before I would go off on a "dementia" tangent with a dog this young and diagnosed as healthy by a vet, I would try to "round up the usual suspects" and inspect every electronic alarm device within reasonable distance of the dog's hearing. As described, this situation just came up too suddenly and too dramatically to be anything other than some sort of artificial cause--dog's just don't go off the edge at one specific time of the day or night--when they tip over it is generally notable at anytime.

[josie&holly]

As explained before have checked my smoke alarms. Apparently my neighbours do not have any.

The Vet prescribed Vivitonin to see if it helped because a sudden change in behaviour can be part of dementia even if there are no other signs of it. She felt that most dogs on it showed signs of improvement within a week but the week is not up yet so if no change then assume that Holly is not beginning with dementia. However, she did feel that it was early for a small dog to show signs of dementia.

There is a slight improvement so will just have to see how things go. I am finding it helpful to have support on the UK Forum and this Forum and thank everyone for their contributions. I do not feel alone with the problem.

[Sam I Am]

I have to totally agree with Idaho. There is something that human ears are not detecting. Jock would go ballistic at sounds we did or could not hear. He saved us from experiencing a flooded basement because he heard the pin hole in the hot water tank that we never heard spouting out water. Do you have any electrical appliances stored somewhere that has a timer on it that buzzes during the night? Many other incidents also that he reacted to that we had no clue.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Terrier lover

[arseovrteakettl]

 Clearly we have 2 schools of thought here...: )

[Idaho Cairns]

 Clearly we have 2 schools of thought here...: )

And both may be totally incorrect!  That's the nature of opinion on a matter that is non-observed.  All we can go on is the perception we have that is unique to our experience.  I had a Cairn with dementia and she was much older than Holly's age and her episodes were random--never at the same time of the day.  Holly sounds pretty regular in her distressed mode which causes me to suspect that a regular outside agency may be the cause but I could be completely wrong, I certainly have been before.

[pkcrossley]

i agree with the noise hypothesis, would put it above the possibility of another contaminant. when my cairn ran from the room and began barking somewhere else, it was because he wanted to draw me to the spot. something is going on that holly is very disturbed by and she is trying to tell you about it. it may not be a unique noise --the quiet of the wee small hours may make a sound that she would otherwise ignore sound very ominous. there could be a stray cat walking through the yard, or she may hear heavy truck traffic (with the grinding gears) or garbage trucks. she could hear the cable modem resetting or running diagnostics. the furnace may sound totally different to her when it starts in the silence of the night. i wonder about something you said --that you couldn't start sleeping on the sofa because it isn't made for that. but do you say that because you've tried sleeping there, with her in the room? was that different?

[hheldorfer]

I previously said I had nothing to add to the discussion but then I remembered some strange behavior by Buffy and Ziggy a few years ago.  It was during the winter and every evening around 4:30-5:00 they would both become extremely agitated - snorting, raising their noses into the air and sniffing, running around the house as if they were searching for something and barking like crazy.  We were convinced it was something in the attic but a search revealed absolutely nothing - no signs of a break-in, no droppings, etc..  We found no correlation between sounds in the house and their behavior; it didn't matter if the heat was running, whether or not the washer/dryer/dishwasher/refrigerator were running, or whether or not the TV or computers were on.  We checked the smoke detectors and Co2 detector.  It was maddening and frustrating and we never did find the real cause, but we now suspect they were sensing/smelling cats outside.  We have a feral cat population in our neighborhood and some people put food out for them at regular times in the morning and evening.  I have seen several of the cats heading in the same direction in the morning while walking the dogs.  In addition, they seem to have regular routes that they travel and one of them is apparently alongside the fence that separates our yard from the neighbor.  My theory is that the cats were on the move at that particular time, the dogs knew it and they didn't like it.

 

I don't know what kind of wildlife you have in the area or whether or not they are nocturnal, but Holly could well be noticing them even if she's in the house with all the windows closed.  Thought it was worth mentioning.

[oscar's mom]

Have you thought about unplugging all the electrical items in the house one night except for the clock in your room?

I hope you do find what is upsetting her.

[josie&holly]

Am now wondering about minor earthquakes after reading this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-25824615

The town where this is happening is about thirteen miles from here and the mining takes place this side of the town. However, not sure that a dog would feel anythng at that distance especially when they are very minor quakes. But ad made me wonder!

[arseovrteakettl]

Betcha that's it.

[pkcrossley]

ooh, good clue. vibration, high frequency sounds. the distance is not problematic --but the time? do they have a night crew? are they blasting?

[Malcolm's Dad]

Interesting. One time we had an earthquake in Chicago. Never happened before or since. It was 2 am. The bed started going up and down. I yelled at Max, my previous dog. I thought he was jumping up and down and wanted to play in the middle of the night. I told him to go back to sleep. It only lasted a minute. Then I realized it wasn't the dog. I turned on the radio and heard there had just been an earthquake. Noting major but enough to shake the bed. The center was far away in downstate Illinois. We still got a little of it up here in northern Illinois.

It didn't bother Max. He did wake up but wasn't alarmed.

I'm wondering since Cairns are earth dogs, do they sense earth vibrations, or just vibrations more than other dogs?

It's odd this happens about the same time every morning. PK has a good question. Are they doing anything early in the morning? Maybe starting machinery to get ready for the day?

[josie&holly]

Well looking at the times http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk_events.html  not all fit in with Holly's disturbed sessions.  But has made me wonder especially as this morning she woke at 3.40am and there was a quake registered at 3.49.

 

Found this article on web - http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201205/can-dogs-predict-earthquakes

 

 

Thoresby Colliery is one of the few mines in England today working, not sure what there hours of operation are though.

[oscar's mom]

I would call up the office and find out. They should tell you without any problems it should be public knowledge.

I bet she was woken up by the blast and the quake probably follows afterword.

Now that you have figured out the issue now it's time to start desensitizing her to it.

[mom42terrificgirls]

Since some of the timing doesn't fit, could it be aftershocks or just anticipation of the possibility of aftershocks?

[josie&holly]

There is no blasting at night at colliery. Have emailed the geological societ and they say that due to distance my dog would not be affected by these very minor quakes. However, will monitor the times of Holly waking and what time the quakes reported.

So will still consider other noises etc.

A friend feels the tablets I have been giving her are making her withdraw somewhat, she did not want to interact with her doggy friend at all the other afternoon. So have stopped them for a couple of days to see how she is.

[arseovrteakettl]

what do geologists know about dog hearing acuity??

 

Naturally they will say that though.  They don't want people complaining.

 

It has been known for donkey's years that animals can sense earthquakes before seismometers can measure them.  Plus earth tremors are not at all localized events but rather fall off with distance, meaning it is not a sound that is carrying, but rather a degree of vibration in the ground itself that drops off with distance.  Whether or not Holly can feel the vibration at 13 miles distance is arguable I think.

 

Plus when heavy eqpt is working, lifting and pounding and such, that also creates vibrations.  We've had a lot of roadwork here in recent years, and my dogs definitely feel, and remark on with a surprised woof, some of the stuff when it is sudden and new.

Edited January 22, 2014 by arseovrteakettl

[hheldorfer]

 

Earthquakes and such,  doesn't explain the extreme agitation though, and wouldn't other dogs In the area be having the same symptoms?  Again, just speculation...

Dogs, like humans, are individuals and can vary dramatically in their reactions to odd events. I think that the earth shaking could easily cause extreme agitation in a dog and provoke the type of behavior exhibited by Holly.

[josie&holly]

Am going to have another conversation I hope with Vet tomorrow.

[arseovrteakettl]

well maybe others dogs are carrying on.  we don't really know...

 

I guess I err on the side of not giving medication unless it is totally necessary.  Just a personal preference.

 

True about different dogs having different responses -- sort of like the response to thunder, you get a full range from loving it to chewing the doorknob off to get inside.

Edited January 22, 2014 by arseovrteakettl

[arseovrteakettl]

I just think that all non-pharmaceutical solutions should be considered along with pharmaceutical ones, or even a bit preferentially, especially if the medical solution means being medicated for the rest of your life.

For example, with diabetes, for some people, losing 20 pounds and exercising might take you out of the danger zone as effectively as medication; this has certainly been true for me.

So I imagine the same sorts of things hold true for our dogs. With big dogs, for example, the need for steroids and painkillers late in life can be obviated by keeping the dogs at a good weight and well exercised early in life to avoid osteoarthritis.