big cairn terrier

[Guest]

I have questions relating to variability in the breed. Essentially we purchased a puppy (now 21 weeks old) from someone who owned two Cairns however I did not see the father. The mother looks like what I would expect a Cairn to look like. Both the parents are AKC registered. Our dog at 21 weeks seems to have a larger muzzle and ears than pictures or dogs I have seen not to mention he "seems" large. Can anyone address how the breed varies or ultimately do you think it is improbable that he is a full blooded Cairn?

Thank you.

[Guest]

I'm worring about the same thing with my puppy. She is 4 months old and her ears look like they might be too big!

[Guest]

How big is big? If your dog, when grown (eighteen months at minimum), looks like this however, it is not typical of the breed in terms of ear size (or eyes, skull, foreface, etc.). The AKC has a short video clip that shows more typical examples.

Puppies often need to grow into their ears. Your breeder (if available) can tell you if your puppy's ears were 'normal' when just a wee thing, or if they were always large. Often it is a case of the dog needing some months to catch up to its ears. Also, big ears and Bonanza size are two of the many factors that can cause a Cairn to be placed as a pet. They may not be ideal examples of the breed, and should not be bred, but few dogs meet every ideal. It's often a matter of degrees. Variability in size for example is a hot topic often debated by breeders.

A dog that is a poor 'poster Cairn' can still be a fun, loving and lifelong companion of infinite value. Enjoy yours.

[Guest]

I have to tell you something, unless you purchased your animal with the intentions of breeding and/or showing her.him, there are far bigger concerns. I have a Cairn who will be 2 years old next month. I acquired him quite by accident. A dear friend was offered an excellent job in London that he could not refuse with 2 weeks to relocate, and my partner and I happened to be combing the city shelters for the right dog at the time so serendipity occured. Unfortunately this friend decided to buy his dog from a pet store, and the AKC papers suggest a puppy mill background. Midwest, Inc. in the breeder name, all of that. He was adopted at the first time at 12 weeks old and we goty him at 4 months, so my Cairn Oliver has been in a loving home for most of his life. Because he's been in New York City, as soon as he's gotten his rabies shot, he has been taken to the park and socialized with other dogs daily. His temparenent with other dogs is incredible. He can bring pit bulls and rotties to their knees. His ears have always been very big. They still are.

He is 21 lbs and not fat (he goes hiking in the mountains even), my vet says that is not abnormal for cairns and she sees many small dogs. Even in a relatively affluent neighborhood with many very expensive little dogs walking around (I live near a giant park, there are lots and lots of dogs around- a whole dog subculture) rarely a day goes by where my little Cairn terrier with his sparkling personality does not get a compliment from a stranger, despite the fact that he does ot look very much like the breed standard. Just like most women do not look exactly like Barbie dolls

not all Cairn terriers are going to look exactly like the breed standard, and that is no reason to think that they are any less of a wonderful pet or

any less beautiful or to love them any less. And before anyone says anything, I did have my Cairn neutered at five and a half months old, because I do believe in leaving breeding up to the professionals. I would way rather have my wonderful 21 lb Cairn with the floppy ears who's only vice is eating expensive shoes and begging for food [he will run through his repetoire of tricks until he gets treats] but does not have a mean bone in his body and never messes the house and grooms my cats and sits at my feet when I work at my desk and sleeps at my feet at night and disco dances that literally everyone who spends any real time with him likes than to have a breed standard dog with a lesser temperament, because ultimately a dog is a member of your family and that is what is most important. Big ears are actually I think a really cute feature. I forgot what the breed was, but there's a terrier that looks a lot like a Cairn but smaller and with much smaller ears and I saw one on the street and I was talking to the owner and initially I thought it was a mutant Cairn.

[CRSTFR]

Hear! Hear! What a beautiful response! You brought a tear to my eye. I have been waiting for Carmen's ears to stand and have been a little concerned about it. You have made me forget about the dumb ears and remember how priceless my little girl is! Thank you

[kerry]

What a beautiful post. I loved reading this! I am new to the board and decided to go back and check out what I have missed. Great description of your cairn!

[kayharley]

That was indeed touching. I've always loved my dogs whether or not they were "perfect".

[wheezie23]

Oh, I am cheering you on, mystery poster! lol What a wonderful description of your relationship with Oliver. I feel the same way about my Tucker. I know he is definitely not show quality, he has poor skin, his coat is finally coming in, and his ears were too big for his body at 4 months. He's finally grown into them now. But what he lacks in breed standards he more than makes up for in charisma, personality and unconditional love. I wouldn't trade him for the world!!

Thela

Here's my boy at 4 months. He looked more like a corgi than a cairn!

[HappyCairn]

My cairn was a big pup. He's 18 months now and weighs 15 pounds. I thought I was going to end up with a giant as well but it wasn't a huge deal, I'd have loved him the same.

He's got one ear that flops but that's OK, it just gives him character.

I have to agree with everyone else here, it's the insides that really matter and I love my boy just the way he is.

[toomanypaws]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. Most of us here have "pet quality" cairns. If I had known what to look for in breed standards 4 yrs ago, I might not have ever purchased my oldest cairn, Kiara. I did the crazy thing of lurking on-line at cairn puppies and for some reason when I came across an add for a dark brindle, I contacted the seller. The seller emailed me pics of the litter and I took one look at her and sent him a deposit. She wasn't actually from a breeder, just a couple who decided to breed their pet once. I was able to see the website of the breeder who owned her father. I'm glad I didn't know how little the ears were suppose to be or short the tail should be. I didn't know that the body shouldn't be too long. I never inquired about the weight of the parents and didn't know Kiara would be above the average weight (19 lbs). What I do know is that she made me fall even deeper inlove w/ this exciting, demanding, yet stubborn breed. I do know, as much as my dh was against another dog, he immediately fell for Kiara. She's named Kiara Joy and in spite of her strong will, she has truly been a joy in our lives. Because of her, I fell deeper in love w/ cairns and I wanted to know more about them. I bought books, read articles to better understand the breed and to learn the best ways to train Kiara (only to find, there isn't a book written for her).

I now have 3 cairns, all pet quality. My other two are much smaller than Kiara, my youngest is probably below standards in weight but has the best qualities as to what to look for in standards. Do I care? I love all my cairn girls big or small. In my eyes, all three are champions. :king:

If you want to see big ears, feel free to email me and I'll show you some pics of Kiara when she was a pup. The other two went through that stage where their ears looked huge, but they grew more into them, Kiara's are still big. Your pup is still young and may look much different once his hair starts to shag in around his face. You didn't mention his weight, so it's hard to say if he's big or not.

[Brigette]

Yoda looked like he had bunny rabbit ears when he was a puppy-he did finally grow into them, but it was really cute while it lasted. Yoda still has a really big head, its kind of a family joke because my husband also has large head-even my mother-in-law said that we can be sure Yoda is Matt's son!

[Brigette]

Also, did anyone see that new breed "Glen of Imal Terrier" at the recent dog show? I was so curious, because he looked kind of like a Cairn, but with a bigger head, and his tail slightly arched over his back. I am concerned because Yoda has a big head and a longer than average tail-what if I really have a Glen of Imal and not a Cairn? Does anyone know anyting about this breed?

[Logansmom]

Hi,

Just have to add Logan to the pet quality list. He has huge ears, slightly bow legged and an adorable underbite. His heart and his personality are even more huge. He has brought us so much happiness in the wild year that we have had him.

I'd hate to have a snippy show quality. They can't have fun rolling in the mud and the snow

[bradl]

Here's a glen gallery: http://www.glens.org/gallery.htm - more info on the main page, etc.

[suedelu29]

You know I have to agree with all of you, that being "perfect" doesn't really matter. My main concern, and I mentioned it somewhere here in this forum, are you really getting what you paid for? I paid alot for Roxie, never saw the parents, and was from a breeder. She gave me the papers and all. I was never going to show her, she was strictly my baby. But......she is way longer than a cairn should be, vet said so. She is 27 lbs, not fat, but big. Doesn't have the "muzzle". Now Vinnie who I just got, same age, looks exactly like all the cairn pic's I've seen. This one had no papers and was much much less. What do you believe? You gotta wonder does she have 1/16 of something else in her? Who knows?

[kgemind]

Wheezie23, though I've never seen a Corgi puppy, I don't think Tucker looks at all like a Corgi. He has the perfect Cairn expression that is priceless at any age.

Funny you are talking about ears. I always thought my Annie was more cairn-like than Sofia. Ann is smaller, closer to the ground, with a small head and close set ears. Her coat is also more cairnish. Sofia has longer legs, ears set apart, and a silky coat.

But I'll tell you when I bring them both home from grooming, I have to look carefully to tell them apart. And their expressions are very similar. I also agree that no matter what they look like, they are great little cairns and my good buddies!

Take care

Karen

[wheezie23]

Karen, actually that picture of Tucker reminded me of George Rodrique's Blue Dog paintings. Those big ears are really the only thing that reminded me of a Corgi! But like I said, he's grown into them and looks great!

Thela

[Eliz222]

When Scout was a puppy I drove the vet crazy asking, constantly, do you think her ears are too big? She kept telling me that Scout will grow into them...and she did! Her ears are still larger than Finch's. I don't care if their ears are the size of bananas...they are still my babies and I love them bunches!

You can see her ears here. Scout is sitting in the toy bin, again.

That's Finch sitting next to her...also in the toy bin!

[Milopup]

How do you prevent Scout and Finch from biting their bin? My pup has knawed all the corners on his bin; they are no longer round, but have jagged edges which I have to tape up.

[Eliz222]

I don't have to do anything...maybe it's because they are so busy tearing up their own toys that they don't have time to mess with the bin! LOL! In fact, as soon as I started typing this, Finch jumped in....these dogs are sooo funny!

[newcairn]

The bottom line is that no matter what the Cairn looks like, as long as they posses the Cairn personality then you will love them no matter what and you have yourself a true Cairn Terrier.

But, with that said there are some basic standards for the breed. I personally am a particularly detail oriented person, so when I went shopping for breeders I made sure I found a breeder that bred a dog that I felt typified the breed standard. After a lot of research and phone conversations I feel I found one.

My pooch never had really large ears, but there is some truth that puppies do have to grow into their ears a bit. Mainly because the adult hair has to come in to make them appear smaller. So if your dog is young, try and reserve judgement until they fill out a bit and get their adult coat and it begins to feather out nicely. Truth is, if you were to shave any Cairn down, that had even the smallest ears, the ears would appear big. Put em in the shower to test this-it's a hoot!

Digby is now 9 months old, and holding steady at 17 pounds, so he is a little thick in the body-but not too much. I am thinking he will make 20 pounds or so. He shows most of the characteristics of the breed really well, but he's not perfect either. I mean I watch Dog shows, and that is about the only time I look at him with a discerning eye. Otherwise I could care less, and couldn't imagine showing him and having to listen to someone saying something is flawed about him, that would boil my blood.

I understand where you are coming from though, there is nothing wrong with wanting a well-bred dog that typifies the breed. It is nice to look at your dog and know they are pure as pure can be, inside and out. I mean that is why we buy purebred dogs in the first place! Even better than that, it is nice to know that there are people out there that care so much about the breed, that they pay close attention to all the details that make a beautiful, well-tempered, HEALTHY dog. But I promise whatever your dog looks like, you will love them either way as long as they carry the personality and intelligence the Cairn is known for.

Anyway, I posted a picture of my Digby so you can see the ears on him. Also because I love to show him off. But don't we all?!

P.S. Something to keep in mind. You mentioned AKC reg, it really doesn't amount to a whole lot these days. It is not a guarantee you got a healthy, show quality dog. That needs to be confirmed at the breeder level, not with the AKC. Good that you have it though, it is somewhat helpful to a pet owner.

[Guest posting as: Pat]

Apollo will be turning 14 next month and when I bought him at six months his paws and head were basically his entire body. He did grow into both eventually. At the present time he is 22 pounds, but at one point when he was younger he had gotten to 25 pds. My parents also had a cairn that recently passed away and was a year older. Angus was normal size for a cairn (14-16 pds) so it was quite funny to see these two next to each other. There is really nothing to worry about, except both dogs seemed to like to chew on expensive leather goods (shoes, purses & wallets) and they will be a joy to have around.

[wheezie23]

Newcairn, Digby is a very handsome little man! He looks like what I imagine Tucker is going to look like when he's a little older. I love his stance, too! At 6 months old, Tucker is already at 17 lbs. and very thick through the shoulders. He's going to be a big boy. Maybe we should've named him Tank like I wanted to!

Thela

[Guest Guest]

Thanks Wheezie...WOuld love to see a picture of Tucker, which I like better than the name tank. Tank seems more fitting for a Bulldog or something, but I know what you mean.

[wheezie23]

Here's the most recent one of him. As you can see, his coat is still short, but it's finally coming in nicely. His coloring is a lot like Digby's.

Thela