FYI! Barney's anesthesia protocol

[Barney's Mom]

I had my vet write down the anesthesia that was used on Barney. Below is the information, for all of you who wanted to know. At the time of surgery, Barney weighed approximately 10.5 lbs and was 4 and a half months old.

Intromuscular injection:

1. Domitor (medetomidine) ....... 0.04 ml ( 4 mg / lb IM )

(University of Illinois Veterinary School would have used 0.02 ml according to my vet. She said they have now changed their dosage on their charts to fit the U of I dosage.)

2. Torbugesic (butorphanol) ....... 0.1 ml (0.1 mg / lb IM)

3. Atropine........ 0.37 ml ( 0.02 mg / lb )

Gas maintenance......Isoflurane

After surgery:

Buprenex for pain

Penecillin as antibiotic

Immunizations were given after surgery: Distemper/parvo and Rabies

There you have it! Please write this down and give it to your vet when you take your babies in to get fixed!!! I don't want this to ever happen to anyone else here.

BTW, the vet only charged me for his neuter and not for any of the emergency procedures, even taking him 1/2 an hour away to an emergency clinic at 9 at night, and bringing him back in the morning. I appreciate that. It made the whole thing slightly less traumatic on us.

Best,

Barney's Mom

[MikeC]

Thanks so much for the valuable information. Duffy is having a teeth cleaning next month and while he currently weighs in at 17 pounds, I am going to bring this with me anyway.

Mike

[Eliz222]

Thank you for this information. Did the vet have any idea why Barney's heart stopped? Was it the mix of medication? I'm going to write this all down too. Scout will have to have her teeth cleaned in the next year or so.

[maggie]

Thanks for the information, Keegan will be neutered sometime around the end of September early October, we didn't have any trouble when Kai-lee was spayed last year but after what you have gone through I'll probably be a basket case. I hope Barney is doing okay today!

[SARpartner]

Barney's Mom,

Thank you for taking the time to provide us this information. I understand that you've been going through a lot but yet you care enough to help everyone else. That is so kind of you.

My best to you and Barney.

[Barney's Mom]

It's no trouble at all! I hope Barney's situation can help another family by sparing them what we went through.

Barney's vet could not give us any reason why Barney's heart stopped. Wish she could, but no.

He tested out to be healthy and fine before the surgery. Bloodwork was fine, heart was fine.

Who knows...... I am just glad he is here and alive and getting better. All my prayers are being answered.

[toomanypaws]

Thanks for the info. Did you get my last PM? I'm glad Barney is improving and that your prayers are being answered.

[Scully'sMom]

Barney's Mom,

Thank you for thinking of all of our babies and posting that information for us. That was really really kind of you in light of all you've been through.

[goforette]

Do you know if they gave Barney his vacinations prior to his heart stopping? I'm wondering if the immediate mix of medications is what caused the reaction. I heard that often times Rabies and Parvo/Distemper should not be mixed and rabies should not be given any sooner than 6 months to avoid problems. Granted I had another vet tell me the complete opposite so who knows what to believe. Maybe it wasn't the anesthesia - (which would be comforting God, forbid he ever have to go under again.) But I'll definately take note of the drugs just in case - my girls just turned 4 months and after hearing about Barney I'm scared to death to spay. I'm just so glad he's doing so much better.

[Cairnmania]

Unfortunately anesthesia always carries some risk, even with healthy dogs (or humans). Your vet sounds wonderful.

I don't know if it's standard practice in the U.S., but I personally would have a dog innoculated on the same day as a surgery. Some dogs have negative reactions to innoculations and it seems to me that it would increase the risk of something going wrong, given the dog is already under stress.

I am very glad Barney recovered.

[Barney's Mom]

Cairnmania,

Did you mean you would NOT have them vaccinated at the same time as surgery? I think that's what you meant to type but left out the "not".

Deep down I do wonder if there was something to those shots after the surgery.

[Mollyrocker]

my immediate reaction was that it struck me as odd that they would have vaccinated the same day as a surgery. Vaccinations can have adverse reactions on their own..I know for sure my Vet would never do this. As it is we are splitting them up as much as possible even if it means additional visits.

I am glad Barney is making a full recovery.

[tlwtheq]

my immediate reaction was that it struck me as odd that they would have vaccinated the same day as a surgery. Vaccinations can have adverse reactions on their own..I know for sure my Vet would never do this. As it is we are splitting them up as much as possible even if it means additional visits.

I am glad Barney is making a full recovery.

I know the last 3 vets I used wouldn't even give all the yearly vaccinations at once...not to mention coinciding with surgery. They made us come back for a "second shift" if you will. Perhaps that does bear consideration...good point.

[AngusMacDoggal]

I have also heard to break up the vaccinations to spread them out over a couple vet visits. SO, just maybe the vaccines is what put Barney over the edge. Something you may want to discuss with your vet. Also, while we are discussing vaccines. Do you all vaccinate yearly? Titer? What are your feelings? I started doing titers on my Wheaten, but his immune system was compromised as it was. I saw no reason to futher put him at risk by over vaccinating. I'm wondering if titers would be the way to go with Angus considering he shows signs of allergies already at just shy of 6 months of age.

[goforette]

I'm being very cautious with vacinations - in fact so cautious that I cancelled my vet appointment today for another round (3) of Bordella and first rabies shot. I've decided to wait for rabies until they at least are 6 months old after what I've researched and I won't combine rabies with any other vacination - I know the vet will tell you yearly - I vacinated my Westie every three partially due to high allergies and partially because I don't believe in over vacinations. I tried a new vet - (old vet reminded me of my prior losses) and he was such a jerk (pardon my mild language) - lecturing me on how horrible I was because I refused his Giardia vacination and heartworm. I know there are lots that will disagree with me, and that's okay. But I will not give my dog heartworm medication - the ratio of those dogs who actually get heartworm in Colorado versus those that have problems with the medication outweigh any positives. And that's just a personal choice that I've made for my dogs.

[toomanypaws]

I'm so glad Barney is improving. I just PM'd you about the anesthesia protocol (think I mispelled that in my email). For others reading, it is not recommended to administer vaccinations after surgery. It's better to do either before, while the dog is awake. If it's to be after, it's best to wait for the dog to come out of the anesthesia.

I'm being very cautious with vacinations - I've decided to wait for rabies until they at least are 6 months old after what I've researched and I won't combine rabies with any other vacination.

Goferette, it really is best to have your pup vaccinated against rabies at 16 wks.

AngusMacDoggal, No, we do not vaccinate our dogs yearly, but they did receive all of their puppy vaccinations, including rabies.

[Cairnmania]

Toomanypaws,

Actually, if the goal is to avoid a trip to the vet, it's best to wait until the post-op check up to vaccinate.

I am very nervous about vaccinations for my dogs too. Rudi had a reaction to his last innoculation and as a result I took Abby to another vet who used a different brand. Then, my vet told me that he'd switched brands because with the one he uses now he does not need to give the full protocol every year. So now I'm simply confused. :-)

Stacey

[toomanypaws]

Toomanypaws,

Actually, if the goal is to avoid a trip to the vet, it's best to wait until the post-op check up to vaccinate.

I am very nervous about vaccinations for my dogs too. Rudi had a reaction to his last innoculation and as a result I took Abby to another vet who used a different brand. Then, my vet told me that he'd switched brands because with the one he uses now he does not need to give the full protocol every year. So now I'm simply confused. :-)

Stacey

Stacy, I agree about post-op vaccination, but not all clients return for that. Sometimes it is much better to vaccinate when they're there, especially against parvo.

The vets must follow the label instructions on the brands or they could get in serious trouble w/ the Board of Veterinarian Medicine. Some brands require innoculation yearly, that's why it's done.

[Cairnmania]

[toomanypaws]

Stacey, I'm not trying to argue you. You're not telling me anything I don't already know about the drug companies. I was only stating why some vets vaccinate annually. The vet may not be the owner and have control over the brand ordered.

[wags]

Our vet did wait until 6 months for rabies shot. And he did get a reaction even then, which is now why we have separate vaccinations. And now, I am finding myself postponing vaccination boosters since his last vaccination preceded an illness

[Barney's Mom]

What kind of reactions do dogs have with rabies vaccines? Would Barney's next shot cause his heart to stop????? Now I'm worried...... Is it better to have the three year rabies done than the one year so they need fewer shots? Or is the three year a whopping dose so it will last that long?

When Barney had his puppy shots, he didn't have any trouble that I could tell. Does this mean he never will?

Boy am I confused now!

[goforette]

Barney's mom,

You know it's ironic you mention vaccinations - especially rabies as I've been trying to research it all day long. Hollie will be 5 months old on the 27th of July and Brystal 5 months on August 5th. I cancelled my vet appointment on the 17th because everything I've been researching tells me rabies is safer after they hit 6 months old. Additionally my "new" vet wanted to do another Bordella shot along w/rabies which would have been their third bordella since they've been born and from what I can tell now was not necessary. Additionally they've had parvo and distemper at the same time - from researching it - sounds like I should have insisted upon separate days for each vaccination. I'll give you some sites that I was looking at today. I want to caution you though that some of the sites include things that may make you feel bad about Barney as they warn against vaccinating at any type of surgery and I do not want you to feel bad about anything that happened to Barney. It's not your fault and please, please never think that. You're a good puppy mom. We're all learning - and who knows what triggered his reactions. Had it not been for you discussing Barney I would have done vaccinations on Monday. Now I'm researching all that I can. And who knows if I'm doing right or wrong. It's so scary. We're all just trying to do the best we can and we have faith that our vets have our pets best interests at heart - but I can tell you that Brystal had blood in her urine on Saturday so I immediately went to this new vet who wanted to test her fecal not her urine - and I threw a fit - he wanted to rack up money and I brought her in for a urine issue - then he spent a half an hour scolding me because I refused his Giardia vaccine and denied another Bordella. So between his attitude and your little Barney I cancelled Rabies shots for Monday until I can think it over more and reserach things. To say the least I'm probably vet hunting yet again. I had a great vet (but they're a little far for me) that vaccinated every 3 years for rabies and such - and I'm a strong believer in not over vaccinating - especially after what I read today. I know I'll be forced to do rabies - I think I have to by law here at least once. But maybe if I wait until 6 months it will be safer. I know that I'm refusing all the optional stuff. Here's the sites, and again please don't beat yourself up about anything:)

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/pressOvervaccinated.html

http://www.ohio.com/mld/kansascity/busines...ascity_business

http://leerburg.com/vaccinosis.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Farm/10...ccinations.html

[Barney's Mom]

Wow!! I had no idea that vaccinations were so controvercial. That one site said that immunity to distemper/parvo, Leptovirus, etc. lasts 7 years from the first shot they receive!

We are a holistic/natural/organic family that follows a low drug/no drug program with our health. I just realized something when I read this article. All these things were coursing through Barney's veins when he had his surgery:

anesthesia drugs

rabies vaccine

distemper/parvo vaccine

heartworm medication

flea control

OMG, there is a drug store in his body!!!! From what I have read, I am not going to give him any more boosters. Unfortunately, I have to vaccinate him for rabies because it is the law. But I am planning on stopping the heartworm and the flea control. That one vet on the first link said he has never seen more than two cases of heartworm in 20 years at his practice. Something is rotten in Denmark, folks!

I guess it shouldn't surprise me. The drug companies are bordering on criminal with what they do regarding humans, it just figures that our pets would be the next victims. Our society is overmedicated, now our pets are following suit.

Thanks for the info, goforette! I am eternally grateful!!!

[wags]

About the heartworm, last year when Wes was very ill, he was due for a heartworm tab. And he was in florida with all the mosquitoes. I didn't want to add any kind of poison to his body.

So all the vets reassured me that a monthly dose of heartgard lasts 2 months. And here I was giving him a tab EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

About the rabies shot- I was under the impression that the 3 year and the 1 year are the same strength.