Cairn puppy and newborn baby

[Lili]

Hi!

I'm new to the forum. We're getting our first Cairn Terrier puppy next month. We have a 2 year old girl who's very gentle and well behaved around animals, and I'm 5 months pregnant.

We did discuss it through, as we realize it is going to be challenging to have two "babies" at home at the same time. We are ready to work hard to make it work, but it would be so useful to get as many opinions and experiences of people that have actually experienced Cairn puppyhood and/or Cairn puppyhood combined with caring for a newborn (and a toddler).

Anyone?

[DashellKc]

WE are in the same exact situation just different timing. I am 32.4 weeks pregnant and have a 9 week old Cairn puppy. I also have a 5,4,2 y/o daughters at home. Great choice on the dog. We had a Cairn last year and unfortunately he passed away in a horrible accident (long story another time). We found out I was pregnant right before he died at the begining of the year. We got our 2nd Cairn a week and a half ago. It will be busy. Cairns are wonderful family dogs and just make sure you are very firm with your 2 yr old on how to behave around dogs. Thats my biggest struggle. And be firm with the Cairn as well with what you expect from him also. They will become great buddies. Involve your daughter with grooming and giving treats. Just everyday things with the dog. Involve the dog in everyday activities also. Always keep your Cairn on a leash if not in a securely enclosed (fenced) yard. Even my 9 week old pup will run off if not on a leash. Even with our fenced back yard, I still invested in a tie out as a double precaution. Be very consistent with potty training the puppy, sometimes they take awhile but just take in stride. We are working on the play biting and growling. They think they are big ferocious beasts! Which most terriers do. We will have to talk further and form a support system for eachother being in this crazy situation.

Taylor

Atticus 05/14/06 AKC Cairn

Baby girl#4 due 09/06/06

[wellygoggles]

I've often wondered how Cains can be considered family dogs because mine (18 months old) will eat everything and anything he can forage out including the ends of socks, towels, shoes, toilet rolls - therefore, how do you keep children's playthings away from them such as Lego? Just curious

[DashellKc]

Our Cairn is not aloud in the Childrens rooms, and wont be until much older. We keep his play things in the living room, and he has run of the house (no carpet) exept the hallway and 3 bedrooms where the carpet is. He is not aloud on the carpet at all. He does come in our room to sleep in his kennel but as soon as he is a few weeks older, his kennel will move to the main part of the house. If my husband leaves shoes, or the kids leave anything out for him to chew, they learn really quick to put things away. I also use bitter apple on things I dont want him to touch. I did this with our previous Cairn and it worked great. If I see him with a toy he isnt supposed to have, I replace it with one of his.

Taylor

[Lili]

Taylor,

Thanks for the great advise. It is comforting to know that you've gone through it and you're doing it again.

I will definitely be posting here my questions, concerns and achievements. We won't be getting the dog for another month, but I'm trying to learn as much as possible now, before he arrives.

So keep the experiences and advise coming, please!

Lili

[AllAboutPetey]

I apologize in advance if I hurt your feelings. 18 years ago I had a 2-year-old and a newborn baby, and I can't imagine dealing with a Cairn terrier puppy at the same time. I do wish that I had gotten my Cairns at an earlier stage in my life, but perhaps not until my children were able to walk, feed, and play with the dogs by themselves. You have 2 babies that will require your undivided attention 24 hours a day. There is no way I could get up for 2:00 AM feedings and also deal with house-training and socializing a puppy, too. Puppy teeth are sharp, and they nip, too. We have to finish the job their mommies started about teaching them not to nip and bite. What if puppy nips one of the babies? It seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I'm sure you have no doubt thought of these things yourself, but I just wanted to bring it up again because I think it is so important to make sure it is the right time in your life to get a puppy. Now I'm probably going to get kicked out of the forum for being such a "meanie" today.

[sanford]

Dear "AllAboutPetey",

I've always believed in full disclosure, so I don't think you are being a meanie at all. It's good to get all sides of an issue on this forum. I can't think of anything more exciting than new babies or new puppies, or both! Having a puppy in a home with a new baby isn't for everyone, as you point out, but everyone can make their own decision, once they have gathered the info that they need, both pro and con.

Congratulations and best wishes to Lili and dashellkc!

[kayharley]

One of the best things about this forum is that we can voice our opinions freely and most members appreciate the honesty and advice that comes from someone elses experience.

[bradl]

A breeder I really respect described her own experiences raising both kids and pups. She was (and is, now with grandchildren) fanatical about maintaining barrier separation for years until the interactions can be actively managed. She said it was an unbelievable amount of work and basically would not recommend the experience, but that with bottomless commitment and unwavering attention to detail, it can be done.

So it can work out sometimes, for some people. Indeed there are folks on the forum who've managed it apparently without drama. BUT, without doubt if it doesn't work out, it usually ends poorly for the dog.

[Lili]

Thank you, AllAboutPetey, for your honest opinion. Believe me, I'm not oblivious to the facts that you state. I had already put down the idea a couple of months ago (although we were looking at Norfolk Terriers that time), largely because of those reasons. I know there are A LOT of challenges, and that's precisely why I'm doing research and learning as much as I can beforehand. But we've discussed extensively at home and we've made up our minds. And I wouldn't even dare to consider this if I hadn't the full support of my husband, who has raised and housetrained puppies himself before and helps me tons with my daughter, and the rest of my family. I also have full time household help at my house: a wonderul young lady that helps me with domestic issues and caring for my daugther. I've also talked to her and know I'll have her support too.

Still, I will hold full responsibility for the puppy (and the baby, and Luisa, of course). It IS a great challenge, but I think by the time baby arrives (in 4 months), puppy can be somewhat advanced in potty training (how long does this take? that's one of my questions) and more or less tuned to our pace of life. I can't see a "less complicated" moment to get the puppy once baby is born, and until he's several months old. And we REALLY want to add a furry member to our family. We miss that. We know the wonders of it and are looking forward to it, challenges and all.

I also believe it might be beneficial to my daughter, as a step before her brother's arrival, practicing sharing the attention with another little creature. Of course, this is not the reason why we're getting a puppy, but I'm curious to see if something like that may happen.

That's why I ask for as many experiences from people who've been there. We are ready to face what might come, but it would help to know what that may be...

Thanks again to all for your comments, and please keep the posts coming!

Lili

[brin145]

Lili,

Congratulations on your upcoming arrivals! How exciting to look forward to two new babies in the house. Some people are meant to have multiple kids and dogs. I have only one child who is now a teenager and two Cairns-15 mo. and 6 mo. It's a good thing that my teen takes care of himself! I do work outside the home, but when Gus (the youngest Cairn) joined us....I wondered what I had done to myself. Gus cried every two hours (needing to potty) through the night just like a newborn when he was home with us. This lasted for much longer than it did with my other Cairn. Crunch, the older one, was housebroken by 7 months. Gus is not fully reliable at 6 months. And I am wondering how long it may take. He will not potty in the crate or in his playpen. He WILL go on my carpet if I don't watch for signs from him. He WILL excitedly pee all over you when you get home. He will eat anything in sight. He has started on our wooden fence. (I don't think I can spray the whole thing with bitter apple.) He wails from the playpen when you are not paying attention to him. He wails when he can see Crunch (older Cairn) freely walking through the house. He displays a ton of toddler characteristics. Some endearing, some not so endearing. I wouldn't go back and change a thing about getting the second pup. We love him dearly. You sound like you are doing the right research to know what to expect!!

Brinda

[Barney's Mom]

Dear Lili,

We got our little Barney at 9 weeks of age, and I will be frank with you, I spent about at much time in tears with that little guy as I did with my daughter when she was a baby. It was like having another toddler in the house. Barney was most definitely the alpha dog in his litter because he was an absolute terror when we brought him home. It took several weeks before we got it through his little head that he was not going to rule the roost! I personally could never have taken care of a baby and a puppy at the same time, but that is just me. I only have one child, (we lost a daughter and son prematurely) and I don't think I could have handled being a Mom of more than one! So maybe the ladies who have more kids are more equipped to be in your future situation. I for one couldn't handle it.

I told my friends that getting Barney was like having a newborn that can walk already, and talk back! Even though he bit me hard a few times at the very beginning, it seemed like when he was faced with a group of children, he was pretty good. He would get very excited and jump up on them and occasionally nip, but not hard. I would make sure your daughter knows exactly what to do and what not to do with a puppy. And keep in mind, Cairns are a totally different ball game than most puppies. They are very lively and scrappy and will often think your hand, arm or finger is a chew toy. Barney would grab my arm and attack it. I would firmly say NO and that was just an invitation for more! I one time had to literally fling him off my arm so I could get away from him and he growled and tried to bite. He got put in his pen to cool off and I got a band aid! Honestly, I would be very fearful if I had a young child. As much as children seem to love animals, and many are sweet and gentle with them as your daughter is, they just aren't equipped to deal with the unpredictability of a puppy, let alone a Cairn puppy. I had always read that a child is not really ready for a dog until they are at least 8 years old. My daughter is nine, and she helps me by taking him out for potty, feeding him, etc. She would never have been ready before now.

I would continue to do your research as you are. From your post it sounds like you will have plenty of assistance with your children, plus hubby help as well. But keep in mind too that your baby and little one should have your undivided attention. Your puppy will demand attention too. And he will eat everything in his path that is left on the floor. You will need to keep small objects off the floor at all times.

I don't know, for me having a newborn, a toddler and Barney would be almost too much to handle. Please do not think badly of me for being so frank with you. I honestly don't think it would be a good idea for you to get a puppy with your precious and very young little family. I see tears from puppy nipping, frustration for you when your little one needs you and the puppy has had an accident which needs tending to, etc. etc. And so often, when families get frustrated with their new pet, the pet ends up in a shelter or rescue. Please consider your decision ever so carefully.

However, whatever your decision is, you know you can always count on the folks on this forum for honest, caring, seasoned advice in helping you raise your pup. I love these people

[Lili]

I am eating up the "Good Owners, Great Dogs" book, and it seems pretty good. I'm hoping it will help me housebreak our puppy pretty fast and train him in the main comands (sit, down, stay). I have some questions:

Are there any other books out there that you would recommend, specially for our situation (puppy + toddler + newborn)?

How long did it take all of you to potty train, house break and basic train your Cairns?

Any more puppy + small children / babies experiences out there?

Thanks so much!

Lili

[savannahsmom35]

Savannah wasn't reliable with potty training until about 9 months old and I think that anywhere from 7-12 months is about the norm with Carins. As far as basic training, Savannah wasn't in the frame of mind for obediance until she was 6 months old. She didn't have basic obediance down until about 8 months or so. I have no kids yet but I wouldn't count on having the puppy potty trained or basic trained before your human baby arrives. Until Savannah was about 6 months old, she was like having a human newborn around. Good luck to you and congrats on both the puppy and the human baby!

[Lili]

Did anyone use the assistance of a trainer or sent their Cairn to puppy school? How did it turn out? Did it speed the housebreaking?

I feel pretty capable of housebreaking and training the puppy myself, and I will have 4 really good months to do so before baby arrives, but I want to learn about all the possibilities.

And again, any good books that you recommend?

Gracias!

Lili

[bradl]

Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson. Mother Knows Best, Surviving Your Dog's Adolescence, and Dog Problems, all by Carol Lea Benjamin. Katz on Dogs, by Jon Katz.

[Lili]

Thanks! That's very useful.

Any experiences with trainers or sending your Cairn to puppy school?

How about being trained in how to train your dog?

[bradl]

My personal experience was that spending two years taking once-a-week competition-style obedience classes was the smartest thing I ever did with respect to dogs.

[Sculptedmoon]

Hey there Lili:)

I am new to the forums (just joined today) and wanted to toss in my 2 pence for whatever its worth.

My fiance and I just purchased an 11 week old Cairn. We are a more mature couple,and through the years have raised a number of pups between us, and let me tell you, no raising of previous pups has prepared us for our little girl Shaylee. More than a bundle of joy, she is a bundle of energy, mischief, stubborness, independence, not to mention incredibly strong willed. Never have we encountered a pup so active, strong and FEARLESS.

We researched the breed, but words on paper cannot compare to her in real life. Make no mistake, we love her and love the challenge that she is presenting us with, but the amount of time that has been required and will BE required to train and raise her properly is 10 fold from what we were expecting regarding the raising of a "normal" pup (whatever that may be, lol).

Shaylee is just like raising an extremely active toddler, and while most people would say "Isn't raising any puppy like raising a toddler?", this breed is more active than most, not to mention (again) stubborn and independent (meaning while they know what certain words mean, it is anyone's guess whether or not they they actually want to listen and adhere to it at any given point). Our Shaylee already does things she knows are not acceptable just to get a rise out of us and continues to vie for the alpha position.

We are making strides with her, but we will be enrolling her in obediance training as soon as we take possession of our house. We have had her at our condo since she came home to us two weeks ago, and while we have been making strides with potty training on news paper, and to a lesser extent outside, as well as making solid strides with leash training and her sleeping through the night, we know that we have a long way to go. Obediance training will help immeasurabley (sp?) as will having the back yard at the house, but that training is only as good as its consistant enforcement. In other words, it is still going to take a large amount of energy from us to enforce what has been learned at the trainers or "puppy school".

My diatribe is a long-winded way of saying that I do not feel that a Cairn puppy is in your best interest at this time with a toddler and a new baby on the way, with or without the extra help that you have a your disposal. I personally would never have a puppy around a toddler full stop. Puppys nip and bite as this is thei instinctive behaviour to do so until it is trained out of them. Even then, I would not trust a puppy around a toddler. One cannot watch both closely enough to make sure both are safe at all times. All it takes is one bite to a toddler or babies face which could scar them for life physically and certainly emotionally regarding dogs. Could you imagine that bite going into a toddler's eye? I personally would never take the chance. I got my first dog when my now 16 year old was 9. The pup was a lab mix, sweet and gentle as she could be and was a good choice for a child of that age. It was two years ago that we lost Miss Lucy to sever hip dysplasia, and since my husband to be and I travel often, our choice this time was to add a much smaller but fiesty dog to our family. My fiance is from Glasgow, Scotland and was interested in a Cairn and we purchased Shaylee (Scottish Gaelic for "fairy of the field"). Again, we did not bank on the amount of time and attention that she takes.

i wish you well with your choice, but I would also respectfully suggest that if you are dead set on getting a puppy at this time, that you reconsider your choice of a Cairn. You may want to research a breed that is a little less challenging.

Peace and good~

Merry

[Mollyrocker]

I agree SculptedMoon nice well thought out reply.

[goforette]

Gosh, I'm so mixed on this - and probably not the best adviser as I don't have children yet. But I can tell you that Barney's mom and Sculptedmoon do make some really good points with the amount of time and energy that Cairns require. I have two and I adore them, they're almost 20 weeks old now, but continue to be a handful. I agree that the breed is full of energy and very high maintenance - but at the same time I don't have any regrets. There are days where I struggle and days that are easier. But at the same time I don't want to discourage you either I guess. I mean if you really are planning on obtaining a dog, the really great things are that Cairns are a good breed to have around children. Sure any puppy is going to nip and potentially injure a child - you just have to be careful. I know my Cairns have been around a few babies in the family and do really well - in fact I tend to worry more about the babies harming the Cairns rather than the Cairns hurting them. Lots of young children love to pull tails and ears and loose their step and fall on them and Cairns are small dogs - so as a puppy they may not be able to support a hard fall by a toddler - but you know every child is different and every dog is different - and if you know how your children are with dogs then I think you'll be okay. Me personally find myself like Barney's mom - crying in the middle of the floor saying what have I done - I love you but you're taxing me. It's hard and I can't imagine adding a baby right now to everything - I'd never sleep and I'd worry myself to death. Hopefully Hollie and Brystal give me good parenting skills if I decide to do it later on... but since you're already a parent I'm sure you are prepared for all the action. And if you have help it wil make a tremendous difference warm wishes

[Lili]

You are all so incredible wonderful and helpful. Thank you so much to all for your honest and straightforward comments and advise.

I'm coming to realize that I need to have a second chat with my husband about the puppy issue. I love dogs, but I certainly would not want to regreat having added a furry family member just a couple of weeks down the road, if I'm also going to be worrying about breastfeeding, diaper changing and kindergarden rides.

I also have to talk to the breader I had contacted already, to see if she can hold my deposit for a couple of months (or years?) down the road.

The Cairn breed does sound wonderful to have around kids, but I want to set up myself for success as much as I can and I really need to evaluate all of your input with an open mind.

Plus... I haven't really heard about anyone that has gone through such a situation, and that should tell me something...

Thanks again, and please, keep the good advise and comments coming. It is extremely useful and highly appreciated.

Regards,

Liliana, from Mexico (but at the moment in Portland, OR)

[grillywarren]

Lili,

I have been sitting on the virtual sidelines here, because I don't have children....YET!

I do have two Cairns though, and many friends with kiddos. I can't imagine having

a new puppy, a newborn and a toddler. Even as a first grade teacher who is used to

having say 20 six year-old running around, that combination strikes FEAR into my heart...for the doggie!

First, I think you are amazing for rethinking your decision!!!! You are obviously the type of person who cares! Secondly, I am yet again truly amazed at this wonderful forum for its candid, caring comments!

Lili...again...I think you are wonderful! Congratulations on your new baby!

Ellie

[Lili]

Ellie,

Thank YOU for your comments.

It's been hard to reconsider this issue, because I was really excited about getting the puppy. But I've had a furry baby before, and I wouldn't want something to spoil a relationship as wonderful as what I know that is because of wrong timing.

Your comments and advise have made the difference, and I really appreciate everyone's concern about my situation, my family and the potential puppy who will, according to everyone's informed advise, be much better off arriving later...

Thanks again and I will keep connected to this forum, even if I don't have a Cairn myself, because of the wonderful people here...

Sincerely,

Lili

[Sculptedmoon]

Lili~

I have to say as well, you have been very thoughtful and mature about this decision regarding your potential puppy.

Again, I wish you luck with the new baby:)