Cairn-oodle reply

[Maxter]

I have been reading along for 10 months or so, sitting quietly on the sidelines. I first learned about Cairns from a friend that had 2 of them. We used to house sit the dogs when our friend was out of town. Prior to that point, I was a "big" dog person. Needless to say, the female Cairn came right up to me and melted my heart, we were instant friends. I grew to adore the 2 dogs. Alas, they passed away several years later, due to health complications.

We had not had a dog for about 5 years. When the time came last year, I was ready to talk about Cairn Terriers. That's when we also learned about Cairnoodles. I have really bad allergies and wanted a dog that I was sure I could live with year round. Also, I had never had a puppy before, just older dogs. After watching our friends dogs suffer, we wanted, in as much as possible, to avoid the health concerns of some of the pure breed dogs.

So, we got a Carinoodle. His name is Max. He was 3 1/2 pounds at 8 weeks old when he arrived and is now 10 1/5 pounds at 11 months old. He is the sweetest dog I have ever met. He is friendly to everyone he meets, anybody that wants a dog kiss gets one.

I was uncertain as to whether he was more poodle or more Cairn. Hence, I read this forum. My dog sleeps in the same position as a pure Cairn. He has the same eyes, he loves to play ball and fetch, he digs/digs/digs and then digs more. He can stand on his hind legs, which is probably more poodle.

Anyway, I love him as he is. He is our ideal dog. He does not in any way diminsh my respect and admiration of pure Cairns. I love that breed, what can I say.

You can imagine my dismay at some of the posts regarding the Cairn-poodle dogs. They are just a dog, like any other dog. Great pet, very friendly. Hypo-allergenic. He gets in to everyone's heart in less than 30 seconds. The trainer at puppy play loves him, he is absolutely fearless of bigger dogs.

The logic that cross breeds somehow diminsh or threaten Cairns is somewhat off base. I still admire Cairns and Carinoodles. I do not think that there is an uber-dog or "better" dog. Get the dog you want. Love the dog. And, above all, enjoy other peoples enjoyment of their pets - whatever the pet is. After all, it is their pleasure.

Given that this is a site for Cairn Terriers, I will probably continue to read about Cairns. Give the less than open reception for my cross-breed, this will probably be my only post.

Attached are a few pictures of my little buddy. There are also some shots of his brother (litter-mate). Our friend that introduced me to Cairns also got a Cairnoodle at the same time we did.

[Will&Grace]

Hi, I have not read the posts concerning the mix (hybrid) dogs. I personally agree with you, get the dog you want and love them lots. I have a Cairn, my second one and I love him dearly. I am partial to the Cairn breed but can easily see that I would love a cairnoodle too! I have also heard them called CairiPoos. Anyhow, your little guy is adorable and I can sure see why you love him so much. I have a friend that has now her second Goldenoodle. She loves that mix - a lot.

Thanks for posting the pic - he is adorable!

[sj4iy]

My response against this was that people are charging enormous amounts of money for animals that people are perpetuating without any regard for the health of the animals. When you mix two breeds, there is a equal chance that the dogs will inherit the traits you didn't want instead of the ones you did. Therefore, the breeder cannot guarantee anything as to the temperment, size, coat...basically, anything. And to charge hundreds, even thousands of dollars for a dog, something that people are taking in as a member of their family, without even being able to assure them that the dog is a right fit for them in the first place is, in my mind, irresponsible breeding, anyway you put it.

I know a family who got a cockapoo- and it shed, had all the nervousness of a cocker spaniel, and bit the mother twice. Last I heard, they wanted to get rid of it.

I think that if you want something with certain traits, you should read up on the different breeds, and choose a dog that best suits you. Then find a reputable breeder, one who breeds to improve the breed, not to make money...just the fact that these people are breeding without any intentions of improving the breed just goes to show they are in it for the money.

I have nothing against the dogs that are born from this- but what I'm afraid of is that this is just a passing fad that will have negative reprocussions in the future (like the popularity of dalmations, jack russels, etc). A couple of people, perhaps with good intentions, cross bred dogs in a hope to help some people with eyesight problems, then celebrities got involved, and now everyone jack and jill dog owner is jumping on the bandwagon of easy cash.

*steps off her soap box*

[mrskti]

Maxter, your baby is a doll....thanks for giving him a good home. I'm not sure i could have passed up that face either! I just love puppies...period.

[pookiegirl]

Hello,

I have not read the previous posts regarding Cairnoodles either.

I wanted to welcome both you & your adorable boy, Max, to the forum.

I am unfamilar with the Cairnoodle but a Goldendoodle was in puppy kindergarten with us. He was sweet, smart & beautiful. I just feel in love with him!

Your post is both very well wriiten & informative.

Thanks for posting and, once again, a warm welcome to you & Max.

Barbara

[grillywarren]

I have really bad allergies and wanted a dog that I was sure I could live with year round. Also, I had never had a puppy before, just older dogs. After watching our friends dogs suffer, we wanted, in as much as possible, to avoid the health concerns of some of the pure breed dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a little information re: allergies

Remember, no dog is 100% hypoallergenic, but people with allergies frequently react to supposedly hypoallergenic breeds differently and can even react to individual dogs differently. If your allergic family member has a reaction to a particular breed of dog that family member may be fine with dogs of another breed that is considered to be hypoallergenic.

The following is a list of dogs considered to be hypoallergenic:

American Hairless Terrier

Airedale Terrier

Basenji

Bedlington Terrier

Bichon Frise

Border Terrier

Cairn Terrier

Chinese Crested (hairless)

Havanese

Kerry Blue Terrier

Maltese

Miniature Schnauzer

Portuguese Water Dog

Puli

Shih-Tzu

Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier

Spanish Water Dog

Standard Poodle

Standard Schnauzer

Tibetan Terrier

Toy Poodle

West Highland White Terrier

Wirehaired Fox Terrier

Yorkshire Terrier

I think it is important to know the facts. There is no hypoallergenic dog.

A cross-bred doesn't change this fact.

[tena]

I doubt my Sophie is pure Cairn- she has a short tail and a white blaze. I also don't think it matters.

Overbreeding is a huge pet animal problem, I doubt there is any type of domestic pet that there are too few of. It's a complicated problem that stirs strong emotions in people.

Your dog is very cute, and you love him. That's what matters.

Welcome to the forum and keep us updated on the little darlin'

[Kramersmom]

Maxter,

Oh my, what a sweet heart. I can see the poodle and the Cairn. Enjoy him.

My first cairn lived to be 17 years old. Missy was puppy mill and had lots of medical problems. Missy passed away November of 2004. I miss her dearly.

My son wanted another dog, personally me, I was worn out. Missy had diabetes for the last 4 1/2 years of her life, basically I was home bound, not that I minded but I was so heart broken when I lost her to Liver failure I was done. Our son had his eye on a silkypoo and a yorkiepoo, all darling. I felt the same, that a mix breed has less issues and it is a known fact. My DH's customer told him of an excellent breeder and he and my son went and picked Kramer a cairn terrier.

Me, personally I love all breeds AKC or mixed. I do love Kramer he is such a sweet boy.

ENJOY your darling boy

[bubba]

This time around, our first dog was Cooper, the cairn. When the time came that I thought he was ready for a brother, the dog I found was a schnoodle (schnauzer/poodle). As much as I love Cooper, Yoda is about the sweetest dog we have ever had. He has the poodle traits, and the terrier traits, and from Cooper, has picked up a lot of cairn traits! I had hoped that Yoda would calm Cooper down a bit, but my grand plan backfired! They make the perfect combination and I would never part w/either.

Enjoy your dog,

pat.

[Lisad]

Max is a handsome little fellow. Thanks for your post.

[Dawnya]

Too cute!

[TNA]

Maxter,

I've been reading this forum for months. What I have learned is, that most everyone on this forum have one major thing in common. They all love animals! Animals of any size, color, sex, or breed.

Because of this great respect and love, we are all a bit concerned about irresponsible breeding, and the resulting puppy "pushers". I learned first hand about irresponsible breeding and sales of an AKC pure bred Cairn, whom we lost to Parvo, after only having had my dream girl for 36 hours. I should have been more informed, not so naive when I pursued the purchase.

Please know I respect your love and compassion for Max (anyone would fall in love with him). However, if someone is looking for a cross-breed, there are millions in shelters that are combinations of wonderful breeds. There cost is minimal in comparison to those "chic" and "hip" cross breeds that people are creating.

I do hope you continue to keep us posted on Max!

[Maxter]

Here's another photo with his litter mate and brother Jimmy. Jimmy is a little bigger, Max was the runt of the litter.

Thanks for all the replies. We wanted a Cairn breed or Cairn mix which is why we chose the Cairnoodle. The breeder seemed pretty competent and was not a puppy mill (as far as I can tell).

Is there a size limit on the pictures thay can be posted?

Maxter

[bradl]

Is there a size limit on the pictures thay can be posted?

If you use our server to upload an attachment yes: 100KB per post max, with a total of 300KB. Beyond that you'll have to start deleting old attachments to make room for new ones. Of course the old topics referencing the deleted attachments will no longer display the missing attachment.

If you host the image elsewhere (ImageShack, PhotoBucket, etc) there is no size limit imposed by CTF.

[MikeC]

Max is adorable and the picture of him and his brother together melted my heart. Welcome to the Forum and please continue to post pics of Max. It will be interesting to see how his appearance will change as he gets older.

Mike

[dunraeven]

I felt the same, that a mix breed has less issues and it is a known fact.

Excuse me, Missyforever17, but what really upsets me is that people have heard this and believe it.

If someone crosses a Cairn with a Poodle, or any two purebred dogs, it does not produce a consistent or predictable breed "type." One littermate may look or act more like one parent than another. These mixes don't improve health, they decrease it. All the potential Cairn diseases have effectively been combined with all the potential Poodle diseases to genetically double the chances for inherited defects, nevermind the fact that the people churning out these Cairnoodles and other mixes didn't start with selectively bred bloodstock in the first place. They're breeding for MONEY, not for the betterment of any pure breed or the mixed progeny.

If someone has good enough reason to want to cross bloodlines and begin a "new" breed, he should do it correctly, the same as any professional breeder. Start with champion bloodlines, perform all available genetic testing, develop the new breed over several generations, prove the consistency of the gene pool, and adhere to the strictest code of health and temperament. Then form a breed club with dedicated members who are devoted to the welfare of the creation. No one should be defended for carelessly putting two substandard dogs together for the purpose of making a profit.

Everyone loves his own dog. I started with a Cairn Terrier I bought out of the newspaper because I didn't know any better. Few professionals ever get started in a breed with show quality animals. Please don't be offended when I tell you that you have no idea of the quality of your dog unless and until you put it in the show ring against dogs from all over the country and have a variety of AKC-licensed judges TELL you it's a superior specimen. Then you must further prove your bloodlines by producing champions from your champions.

For heaven's sake, I won't even breed my champions unless they're healthy and have wonderful temperaments. I won't show them in the first place. It's a complete waste of a serious amount of my of time and a whole bunch of my money. Why would I purposely propagate even minor problems right back into my breeding stock? Less than premium dogs are spayed/neutered and placed in pet homes. They are NOT bred.

Most pet owners get their Cairns from pet shops and casual or back-yard breeders. They are simply going to see a much higher percentage of health and personality problems. Show Cairns derive from multiple generations of health testing and selective breeding. I have NEVER had Cairns with allergies, enzymatic deficiency, kidney problems, diabetes, bladder stones, cataracts, dry eye, SARD, craniomandibular osteopathy, luxating patella or aggression, timidity or fearfulness. In 15 years of breeding and showing, I've had ONE puppy born with a liver problem, which is why I've tested ALL my puppies ever since.

Many, many times people have called me about puppies and insisted, "I don't want a show dog, I just want a pet." That is no excuse for inferior breeding. Professional breeders care about health FIRST. Whether a Cairn is show quality or not is secondary.

The dogs used in manufacturing hybrids like the Cairnoodle are certainly not very high caliber. I'm not saying you shouldn't adore your pet Cairn or part-Cairn or hybrid or rescue just because he isn't from show stock. I AM saying you are probably going to experience more health and personality problems than someone who buys a Cairn screened for inherited diseases and bred for health and temperament. THAT is a fact.

Kathy

[bradl]

As I understand it, heterosis (hybrid vigor) is an "F1" or first-generation effect in any event, and subsequent generations carry the worst of the genetic baggage of the constituent breeds - and thus can be more wildly variable than either breed taken individually. While inbreeding depression indeed arises in linebred (inbred) animals, considerable work has been done to suppress deleterious expression of traits in breeds that have been responsibly bred.

Anyone attempting to create new breeds is generally committed to many generations of ruthless culling (translation: killing) of defective offspring until the new breed has more or less stabilized. This is serious work rarely in evidence in designer breeds.

I do not begrudge ANYONE their love of any animal they choose to take responsibility for and share their lives with. I harbor considerable concern about those who exploit that instinct in others for profit.

[TNA]

Bradl,

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[kcsdogs]

My response against this was that people are charging enormous amounts of money for animals that people are perpetuating without any regard for the health of the animals.  When you mix two breeds, there is a equal chance that the dogs will inherit the traits you didn't want instead of the ones you did.  Therefore, the breeder cannot guarantee anything as to the temperment, size, coat...basically, anything.  And to charge hundreds, even thousands of dollars for a dog, something that people are taking in as a member of their family, without even being able to assure them that the dog is a right fit for them in the first place is, in my mind, irresponsible breeding, anyway you put it.

I know a family who got a cockapoo- and it shed, had all the nervousness of a cocker spaniel, and bit the mother twice.  Last I heard, they wanted to get rid of it.

I think that if you want something with certain traits, you should read up on the different breeds, and choose a dog that best suits you.  Then find a reputable breeder, one who breeds to improve the breed, not to make money...just the fact that these people are breeding without any intentions of improving the breed just goes to show they are in it for the money.

I have nothing against the dogs that are born from this- but what I'm afraid of is that this is just a passing fad that will have negative reprocussions in the future (like the popularity of dalmations, jack russels, etc).  A couple of people, perhaps with good intentions, cross bred dogs in a hope to help some people with eyesight problems, then celebrities got involved, and now everyone jack and jill dog owner is jumping on the bandwagon of easy cash.

*steps off her soap box*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree whole heartedly while there is nothing wrong with owning a dog such as your adorable little feller, I have a huge problem with the people breeding and selling these dogs for huge amounts of money. After all what are you paying for? A pedigree, certainly not, a proven breed of dog that bred from healthy stock of course not, a purebred dog? well let's not even go there! There are just too many wild cards in that kind of genetic game and the people generally involved in that kind of breeding don't have any idea what they are doing aside from that people will buy their puppies and they can make a few bucks and from what I have seen in every case of these kinds of breedings is that these "breeders" are very misleading in that they market these dogs as AKC registered and people don't understand what they are buying and that you cannot register the puppies from a breeding of this nature even if mom was a registered poodle and dad was a registered whatever. It seems these days that if you cross anything with a poodle you have an instant "designer dog" While most of the time they are probably well loved great companions it is a fad plain and simple. I personally hope it dies like yesterday.

(also gets down from soap box)

Do enjoy thouroughly your little dog he is adorable!