Help!

[PeppersMom]

My new dog Brodie growled at my 3 year old 3 times tonight, even after I corrected him..he has done this once before...we have had him 3 weeks. He was chewing on a rawhide so I think he was being protective of it, but my daughter did not try to take it from him. I shook him good by the neck and said "no".., then I had Kirsten pet him and told him he was a good boy...then I had her try to take it to set him up and he did it again..again a correction. This guy is on thin ice with me..I won't have an aggressive dog in my house with kids. This has never been an issue with my 3 year old Cairn...we got him at 12 weeks though and this guy is a year and recently neutered...

[wheezie23]

then I had Kirsten pet him and told him he was a good boy...then I had her try to take it to set him up and he did it again..

Pepper, I think you were dead wrong to do this to both your daughter and your dog. Most terriers see children as their equals, and many times will try to assert themselves over them. I would strongly urge you to (1) never leave your child unattended with any dog, even your three year old cairn (2) never intentionally set your dog up for failure, and (3) remove the temptations, i.e. the chews. My cairns will fight over any rawhide chew or bone, so I've had to stop giving them to them.

I know this has to be very scary for you, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your pup is becoming aggressive. He's just being a terrier. You have to control the things that will bring out this behavior in him. Good luck.

Thela

[bradl]

A dog should be able to have a chew without being hassled by a child. Give the chew in a crate, or keep the child out of the picture would be my advice.

[Guest rottndobie]

My new dog Brodie growled at my 3 year old 3 times tonight, even after I corrected him..he has done this once before...we have had him 3 weeks.  He was chewing on a rawhide so I think he was being protective of it, but my daughter did not try to take it from him. I shook him good by the  neck and said "no".., then I had Kirsten pet him and told him he was a good boy...then I had her try to take it to set him up and he did it again..again a correction.  This guy is on thin ice with me..I won't have an aggressive dog in  my house with kids.  This has never been an issue with my 3 year old Cairn...we got him at 12 weeks though and this guy is a year and recently neutered...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You should never leave a small child with any dog - no matter the size. Kids at 3 yrs of age should not be testing or correcting any dog either. I would not say they dog is aggressive when he is just trying to protect his rawhide - that you gave him. No child that young should be unsupervised around dogs. I think you need to train your child more then the dog... You should NEVER have allowed her to take his "treat" away. OMG what were/are you thinking???!!!

[CathyAnn]

Not to make any enemies here, BUT...... I don't believe that PeppersMom deserves to be jumped for what she thought was the 'right' thing to do. The title of her post is "help" and she is asking for advice.

We all need to keep in mind that this is a forum full of wonderful, loving Cairn owners. Let's keep it that way!

Now I'll get off my soapbox!

Cathy

[bradl]

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[Mollyrocker]

Rawhide and bones are highly desirable items for most dogs and will try to guard them with behaviour you described. It is not unusual.

I taught my dog(not a cairn) to willingly give up bones, rawhides and other prized items by "trading up" for the item. I have a yummy treat like a bit of hot dog and I ask for the item..when it is given up, I reward with lots of praise...and the yummy treat, then I give back the bone or rawhide. Sometimes I give back the rawhide or bone and sometimes she is just rewarded with a treat. I practice this everyday so my dog learns that giving stuff up might result in something more interesting and that giving things up is a positive thing always...

I would never mix kids with a dog with a rawhide or bone. Your setting up your dog and putting your child in danger.

I urge you to practice taking things from your dog and making it as positive for you and the dog.

[hallswel]

Mollyrocker gave some good advice, I hand fed my dogs when they were pups so I am doing it with Sugar now. Teaching them to take things out of my hands gently.

They are taught leave it which is really important and I trade toys for treats. That way if I ever have to get something out of mouth they will let me.

[Tracy A.]

Wow- Really great advice from everyone!

Mett at 4months, growled at me when I tried to take a bacon bone away from him.

I realized that I needed to work on this, and now I too do the 'trade up' method often with both of them. He has only growled at me that one time, and i've worked very hard to make sure that he understands you don't do that with Humans over 'toys/food/bones'. Terrier's seem to be always 'testing' the limits, and at times can seem more like a 2 year old than a dog. Just this weekend, my dh commented that he was glad the boys didn't have thumbs- otherwise we'd be in real trouble. LOL

Tracy, Bratt & Mett

[Teri9672]

I'm sorry, but I'm a little upset by the "I shook him good by the neck and said "no".., statement. I don't think this is the correct way to go about this.

Both of my girls get very escited about rawhide and I sometimes have to seperate them while they enjoy the snack. It doesn't mean they are aggressive.

An easier way to solve this problem is to not give him anymore rawhide if it causes problems.

[Maggie15]

I've had a similar experience with Maggie, she had a rawhide and one of our families children ran past within a foot of her and she snapped and growled at her. I've never seen Maggie do this, so that was it for her having that treat around kids, period! Kids do excite Cairns when they are playing and the parents get mad at me when she starts to get a bit excited with the kids (she's 7 months). I do put her in the kennel and tell the children that maggie needs a time out. I do not punish her when I think its her instinct, but i try to teach the kids not to excite her and to play nice (and how to pet/approach a dog -thats important!).

At the same time I do believe that any dog needs to learn that kids are one step up on the chain from them and that they need to respect kids and adults alike. I encourage kids to pet her, handle her, carry her, and walk her and give commands (these kids are 5-8 years though). She is really good with kids and I would not tolerate any agressive behaviour from her towards myself or kids... that is met with being grabbed by the scruff and stern NO and usually i will put her on her back as well.

I would agree that when the dog has a rawhide its best in an expen or kennel and i wouldn't leave the child at that age unsupervised with the dog loose.

Good luck PeppersMom, i'm sure you'll be able to work through this with Brodie!

a

[bradl]

A scruff-shake can be one way a momma disciplines a pup. I wouldn't call that 'shaking by the neck' but someone else might. Just a thought.

I like the advice to practice trading up. It works. I'm also very much in favor of prevention rather than correction.

In dealing with very high-value possessions I believe sometimes it's wise to pick your battles carefully. I'm not going to tolerate my own dog snapping at me, but rather than turn a questionable situation into a death match, sometimes I just toss a fake-out move or similar to get a bone back indirectly rather than exercising Total Authority. Authority is the goal, but we have to be realistic and deal with the situation at hand. Watch one dog steal a toy from another dog - very common tactic to feign interest 'over there' and then sneak back and steal the treasure. If you're going to take a dog on head-on, you simply must prevail. I weigh 8X my dog so I'm going to prevail regardless, but I'd rather not have the argument in the first place.

[Teri9672]

A scruff-shake can be one way a momma disciplines a pup. I wouldn't call that 'shaking by the neck' but someone else might. Just a thought.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sounds a little better, thanks

I have to be careful with the rawhide chews. Tabitha is my power chewer and can have one eaten in seconds flat while Teona is happy to run and play with hers. Tabitha is bad about eating her fast then wanting Teona's. Teona also wants to run past Tabitha and play growl so she will chase her. It sounds very aggressive, but Teona likes to tease and be chased. I now very seldom give them chews unless I place them inside their own crates....problem solved.

About 2 years ago Tabitha did bite a friends kid while he was playing with her. I would have never thought she would do this, but the boy had been teasing her with the tennis ball for about 30 minutes. They had gone off into another room when I heard the growl and scream. She didn't break the skin but he had a big blood blister on his arm. The boy about 10 yrs old admitted he was teasing her when she bit him.

[Anna_525]

I only have a comment, not real advice. Peppersmom is in a tough situation. I've seen so many pets up for adoption because the pets don't get along with babies and toddlers. We almost adopted an Affenpinscher because of the same problem, being territorial with the chews and toys. A baby is not going to know not to grab what the dog has in an unsupervised setting. It was impossible to keep up with the supervision 24/7. When we were getting close to the date of our first visit, the owner changed her mind because she loved her affen so much, she had him for 7 years since he was a puppy. She decided to work with a behaviorist, and I'm guessing it worked out because I didn't hear back from her (she promised to call me to adopt the dog if it didn't work out).

[DashellKc]

I have a Cairn and young children also. I had to go thru this too. What I did was sit by Dash and tell him "give it" and take the rawhide away and give him a treat. I really had to do it with greenies. Then I gave it back. I did this until he relaxed and knew that sometimes I had to take them away and if he went about it the right way he was rewarded. Now I dont treat anymore. It takes time, but its normal. He wants to protect his special treat. Take it, give it back, take it , give it back. Do this a little a few times a day and he will get used to it. Thats what worked for mine.

Taylor

mom to Dash (04/27/05)

and 3 real human kids ages 5,3.5,18months!

[PeppersMom]

I need to clarify my original post...My daughter was not left alone with the new dog. I was right there where it happened and she did not originally try to take the chewy away..she approached him and when she got within a few feet of him, he growled at her. As far as the correction, it is standard practice as what "mother" would do.My daughter knows how to treat a dog, we have had Pepper since she was 18 months old. SInce this is a dominance issue, how is he going to learn if I don't involve my daughter in the process? CLosely supervised of course...also I was looking for other suggestion....

[brin145]

I don't have advice, but realized in reading through some other posts that Brodie is the rescue who had been kept in a crate in a garage. I am glad that you rescued him and hope you find the best way to train him. It has to be a lot of work to undo all a dog may have been through before coming to your family. I hope you find answers here.

[PeppersMom]

I wanted to let you guys know that I spent the yesterday morning on the phone with my 2 dog trainers and they both recommened that I get rid of Brodie because of these dominance issues. I am willing to give him another chance...also wanted to throw in there that he is not "getting it" on the housebreaking front either. Also I'm using the scruff of his neck not just his neck. As far as setting him up for failure...in the obedience world its called proofing...he is being set up for success too...he screws up its a correction and if he doesn't its praise and a treat! Some proofing isn't fair...example putting a dog in a down stay and then calling him to come...

[Lesley]

PeppersMom,

I just want to say that I can only imagine how you would feel. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to manage a safe and happy outcome. Good luck with your journey - I do hope it all works out.

[Cairnmania]

I wanted to let you guys know that I spent the yesterday morning on the phone with my 2 dog trainers and they both recommened that I get rid of Brodie because of these dominance issues.

[Anna_525]

I know for sure that the trainer in our area would also say the same thing. It is a sad situation and it takes away the joy of having a pet as part of the family. You worry everyday and it leaves you with a sick feeling in the stomach. I've had a good friend who gave up her dog for adoption and she felt as if the whole world disagreed with her. It's her life..... I hope that whatever you decide will be for the good of both your family and Brodie.

[PeppersMom]

I need to clarify again...I had my daughter pet Brodie and tell him he was a good boy after she was able to approach him while he had the chewy and he did not growl at her...also his tail was wagging etc. Also I had her feed him yesterday and she hung around the food bowl with great results. I have also been having her give him treats, toys chewies etc, so he looks at her more positively. Whats stressing me out more is that he is not housebroken yet!

[Anna_525]

Well then! Housebreaking issues, I think we all went through various frustrating stages, and I do hope one day it will "click" with Brodie. Hang in there!