Puppy Won't Eat

[Guest NewMom]

Two weeks and a half weeks ago, we brought home an adorable 7 1/2 month old Cairn puppy. Her owner/breeeder decided not to show her, so that is why she is a bit older. She lived with 7 other dogs, but slept and ate separately. For the first week that we had her, she ate her 2 meals per day enthusiastically, licking the bowl clean. For the past week and half, she has had little or no appetite, at least for dog food. The change started after she ate a large piece of cotton sock, and then threw it up 2 days later. Shortly after that, she came into heat. I don't know what is responsible for the loss of appetite. Maybe the realization that there are no other dogs competing for her food, maybe being in heat, maybe because I have been offering her more tempting foods since this started? Anyhow, she had diarrhea yesterday, and now things are even worse. I've talked to the breeder, and we are both stumped. Any ideas?

[CathyAnn]

Welcome to Cairn Talk!

I have to wonder if the entire sock came out or if there might still be a piece lodged? Or, maybe some type of damage was caused while passing the sock?

One thing I would recommend is NO table food. That might be contributing....."well, I'll just wait and see what Mom has to offer instead of doggy food". They are pretty smart little dogs!!!

Might be the cause of the loose stools, as well.

I think I would contact the vet and see what they might feel you should do.

Again, welcome!! Would love to see some pics of your new baby!!

Cathy

[bradl]

How sure are you that the whole sock came out? Fabric can cause a blockage. It's not going to show up on x-ray presumably but I'd still probably start with the vet. Vomiting PLUS diarrhea would have me to vet pretty quickly, in fact. Is her temperature normal?

I agree with CathyAnn's points about the food, too.

[toomanypaws]

I agree w/ CathyAnn and Brad's posts. Have a vet check her out to make sure she doesn't have an obstruction from a piece of that sock. Sometimes if there's a blockage, they will continue to throw up bile. The table foods can definitely contribute to her loose stools and her not wanting to eat her regular food. Once the vet gives her a clean bill of health, get her back on her food and please let us know how she is doing.

[Scully'sMom]

The advice you've gotten already is from some of the most notable experts, I feel, here at Cairn Talk. Good luck and I wish your puppy well - and we want pictures of your little one!

[Guest NewMom]

Thank you all for your replies. I should have mentioned that I matched the thrown-up piece of sock to what remained of the original, and it was a perfect match! All fabric was accounted for. I had her checked by the vet last Friday, and she said she was fine, just testing me. I took her to a different vet today (mine was out of town), because of the diarrhea, and didn't get any further info, just an offer of blood work and x-ray.

When we got home, I gave in and fed her the canned version of her kibble, and she gulped it all down. Then, she went out and had a normal stool. In the battle of the wills, I guess she won. The vet said just to put her dry food down, and if she didn't eat it in 10 minutes, take it back and do not offer it again until the next meal. I admit, I am weak. I'd rather just give her the canned stuff. I'm just surprised that she was content to eat her kibble at her original home and for the first week she was here.

I've read that Cairns are intelligent and stubborn, so I guess my puppy figured out we had better food to offer and decided to hold out for it!

[toomanypaws]

Glad she's ok, but I'd watch that canned stuff. It's not good for their teeth. My cairns are on Canidae dry and love it so much, they seem to watch the clock waiting for meal time.

[Toto times 2]

Try mixing less and less of the canned food with kibble. I eventually got so I only had to stir the food with a fork and put it down with no canned at all. I had to switch Ghillie to a different food from the one the breeder recommended because he wouldn't touch it. They are both on Iams weight ontrol and seem to do really well, great teeth and gums, shiny coats, etc.

[Guest NewMom]

I have heard good things about Canidae, and I'm going to try it! Do you mix water or anything else in with it?

[Eliz222]

Mine like Canidae too....I feed it to them dry.

[AllAboutPetey]

We mix a tiny bit of chicken broth with the dry Canidae. Sometimes I add green beans, but Belle will pick hers out and "spit" them on the floor. Petey (also 8 1/2 months old) went through a stage where he did not want to eat his food and tried to hold out for something different/better. With the addition of Belle, who is a HEARTY EATER, he had to learn to either eat it now or wait until the next feeding time. It took him a couple of times of me taking his bowl up after a few minutes, and then he figured it out. Hope your puppy continues to feel better!

[Anna_525]

My dog tests us all the time. He would not eat his dry food, but the funny thing is he would eat it if it were handfed (I get so worried that he wasn't eating anything).

Congratulations on getting a new cairn! They're wonderful dogs.

Anna

[Scully'sMom]

Hmm...now I'm wondering if I'm doing the wrong thing. Scully gets 1/4 cup of Nutro Weight Control dry mixed with a tablespoon of the same canned Nutro.

Is that not good for her - the canned food I mean or is it if I gave her just canned alone that's not good for their teeth?

[Cairnmania]

Dry food does not do a thing for dog's teeth, despite what the manufacturer's claim. Most dogs inhale it anyway, with hardly a crunch heard before it goes down. Large bones, like big knuckle bones, or nylabones can help keep tartar down. It's fine to feed only moist food.

The only time I ever had a picky dog is when I fed only dry food. I have always mixed a bit of people food (chicken, chopped beef, whatever) into dry food and none of my dog's ever complained or left a morsel on their plates. I've had a few dogs that would happily eat dust off the floor, but even my picky ones never turned down a meal.

Stacey

[CathyAnn]

My vet was adamant that dry food does indeed help with keeping their teeth cleaner??

He explained that it wouldn't do the 'total job' but it is much better than moist.

Cathy

[Guest NewMom]

My vet also said that dry food is better for their teeth. She said not to moisten it at all. Of course, my little pooch will not eat it moistened, mixed, or in any way, shape or form! Today I bought a 5 lb. bag of Canidae. I mixed just a bit of it in with her Nutro Natural Choice Ultra canned puppy food. She ate all of the canned food and left every morsel of the dry, and I mixed it really well!

I still can't believe that she ate moistened dry food every day at her breeder's and for the first week she was here, and now she will have nothing to do with it!

[Cairnmania]

Cathy,

If you want to go with your vet's opinion, that's fine. He or she is echoing what the manufacturer's promote.

I only feed my dogs moist food now and there is no difference in the amount of tartar on their teeth than when I fed only dry. I understand there is a big difference in canned foods, some are junk which contain high amounts of sugar and can stick to the teeth, others do not. Food that sticks to the teeth promotes the growth of tartar. The food I feed has nothing but brown rice, meat, vegetables and contains ground bone. The ground bone actually makes the food slightly gritty and there are no sugars to coat the teeth. (Some dry foods also contain large amounts of sugar, which is not necessary either.)

One of my Cairns pretty much literally does inhale his food, dry kibble included when that's what I fed. Not a chance dry food would make a bit of a difference for him. It's not as if he would actually chew it. Fortunately, he likes chewing on Nylabones, for long periods of time. That does help a great deal.

Stacey

[CathyAnn]

Stacy,

Well, yes, I have to believe my vet has our dog's best interest at heart. Why wouldn't he???

We have discussed various foods many times and he has never promoted one brand/type over another.

He does sell both dry and canned dog foods. I do not purchase any of the brands he carries in his office which are mostly, but not all, for dogs needing special prescription diets.

I just feel that we need to be careful when making statements on the forum as there are alot of first time dog owners. What works for one may not be the best for another.

None of us here are 'specialists'....we are just sharing our opinions.

Cathy

[Eliz222]

My vet has recommended dry food for my dogs too...says it's best for their teeth. I have never had a vet say that moist food doesn't make a difference. I don't buy my vets dog food either.

[Cairnmania]

I guess we all have different opinions about vets.

Apart from health issues which require vet training I think most long-time breeders and long-time dog owners know more than the average vet about dogs. So, I would never rely soley on my vet for advice on feeding, unless there was an underlying health problem - like allergies, kidney problems and so on.

In my experience, some dogs and some breeds are more prone to tartar than others, and whether they are fed dry kibble, or moist or canned food has little to do with it. They need something to gnaw on for long periods of time to make a dent in tartar build up.

Plus, if by observation I can see that a dog is not actually chewing it's food - then it's just logic that it cannot do a thing to prevent tartar.

Stacey

[toomanypaws]

While there is some truth to dry not helping much more than canned for tartar control, most dry food ingredients are much higher quality. Many canned foods are not designed to be a balanced diet and are too high in fat which can lead to pancreatitis.

Stacey, I question why you feed brown rice and veggies being dogs are carnivorous, not vegetarians? There's been an increase in diabetes in dogs due to a diet high in rice and carbohydrates.

While many breeders and pet owners like to think they know more than a vet, one can't educate themselves w/ just one book or one article about information a vet has spent years learning. Vets are as knowledgeable as medical doctors but opted to work on animals over people. A good vet keeps up w/ continuing education to know the latest developments in medicine and health. A breeder or pet owner can't possibly be as knowledgable as a vet who spends hours at a medical convention gaining new knowledge and being updated on current literature. For one thing, feeding your dog dry or canned really has nothing to do w/ tartar. Mineral in the saliva is the cause of tartar.

[Rufus and Rosebud]

Has anyone tried the Naturediet? Our dog trainer recomended it to us, I am going to add a small amount to Rufus dinner , she also says Burns dried food is really good anyone tried that?

[Cairnmania]

Hi Sandy,

Yes, I feed my dogs Naturediet. It's not available in the U.S. though, only in the U.K. Both my dogs love it and I personally think it's a better choice than dry foods, although lots of people seem to like Burns.

(Try the Champdogs web site and forums.)

Stacey

[Cairnmania]

Hi Toomanypaws,

"While there is some truth to dry not helping much more than canned for tartar control, most dry food ingredients are much higher quality. Many canned foods are not designed to be a balanced diet and are too high in fat which can lead to pancreatitis."

Whether kibbled in bags or canned there are a lot of differences between brands of dog food. There is nothing inherently better about dry food, it all comes down to the ingredients. I would not buy most commercial foods for my dogs, so I agree before buying you should decide whether or not the ingredients constitute what you consider good nutrition for your dogs.

"I question why you feed brown rice and veggies being dogs are carnivorous, not vegetarians? There's been an increase in diabetes in dogs due to a diet high in rice and carbohydrates."

Stacey: Is the debate about whether dogs are true carnivores or have omnivore tendencies? I'm staying away from this one, if so. Diabetes may be on the increase, but so is the average life span of dogs. My dogs are not fed a diet high in rice or veg, the major component of their diet is meat fit for human consumption (including leftovers from their human's dinner).

FYI, I don't feed canned. I feed a semi-moist food that is cooked in it's own plastic container, nothing in it but meat, brown rice, veg, ground bone, seaweed ... Meat is the major ingredient in terms of volume (even after cooking). It smells and looks like better quality food than most prepared human convenience foods - although I'm not trying it to be sure! It's not available in the U.S., although I'm sure there must be something equivalent. That's about half of their daily calories. The rest is fresh human food, homemade dog treats, and a few packaged treats (chicken necks, mostly).

"While many breeders and pet owners like to think they know more than a vet, one can't educate themselves w/ just one book or one article about information a vet has spent years learning. Vets are as knowledgeable as medical doctors but opted to work on animals over people. A good vet keeps up w/ continuing education to know the latest developments in medicine and health. A breeder or pet owner can't possibly be as knowledgable as a vet who spends hours at a medical convention gaining new knowledge and being updated on current literature. "

Not all vets are good vets, and even with good vets not all vets keep up to date as we might like, particulary when it comes to topics like canine nutrition. Situation is not any different with human doctors, they are not all equally gifted nor motivated/have the time to keep up with every aspect of their field. I think we disagree here, because I don't think that a couple of hours at a medical convention is as a substitute for decades of watching individual dogs and their response to foods. The fact is that for a good many vets continuing education is largely supplied by salespeople that visit their practice to sell the latest drugs or specialist food products. I am, by the way, not knocking vets. I have had more than a few that I think were fantastic - and interesting enough most of them were eager to talk to breeders and round out/validate their education with some groundroots research on the more "mundane" subjects such as nutrition and breeding/whelping. On topics like how to fix a broken leg - I'd rather they relied on vet school and continuing vet-specific training.

"For one thing, feeding your dog dry or canned really has nothing to do w/ tartar. Mineral in the saliva is the cause of tartar."

Minerals and anything else that stick to the teeth turn to placque and than tartar, but it's the bacteria that build up in the tartar that cause bad breath, infections, decay and the bacteria can also spread to the rest of the system. Only thing things that can actually remove tartar once it's hardened is something hard to chew on - small kibbles than are swallowed without chewing don't make a dent in it.

Stacey

[toomanypaws]

Stacey, you posted:

"I think we disagree here, because I don't think that a couple of hours at a medical convention is as a substitute for decades of watching individual dogs and their response to foods. The fact is that for a good many vets continuing education is largely supplied by salespeople that visit their practice to sell the latest drugs or specialist food products."

I just want to clear something up. A veterinary medical convention is much more than a couple hours. Try 8 hrs a day for a week! Many vets choose to go to more than one convention a year. True, there are always going to be salespeople there, but they are set up w/ their boothes in the convention hall, not the conference rooms. While there is basic information offered free, many vets choose to pay for a specific class, including nutrition which are taught by a person who specializes in that particular field. I can tell you horror stories about breeders who thought they knew more than a vet when it came to whelping. Just like dog owners, every breeder thinks they have the perfect diet for their dogs. I have seen many healthy puppies from different breeders who all use different foods, guess it's kind of like children, mom likes to think she knows best.

I also want to mention that while some breeders may be devoted to their dog's nutrition, many will find a brand that works and cost less because making money is a factor. I know some breeders too cheap to pay a vet for a health exam and certificate on an $800 puppy, or the accidental "oops" the bitch got pregnant again w/o skipping a heat or two. Just like bad vets, there are plenty of bad breeders.