Aggressive 4.5 month old pup

[Andrewthi]

My puppy Buddy is 4.5 months old.  When we brought him home at 3 months he was very mellow but now that he's gotten comfortable at his new house he's gotten very aggressive.  I know at this age they can be pretty crazy, but everything I have tried so far is not working.  This is my 4th Cairn and 3rd I've owned since a pup, but it's been 14 years since I had a puppy.  After he eats and poops he gets very aggressive, biting, barking, running around (we call it zoomies).  I've tried what I know so far.... saying no in a low voice is like white noise now.  I've tried putting him on his back, holding scruff of neck, holding cheeks and looking in eyes, distracting with toys.  My wife gets scared at these times.  Please help.  Thank you.

[remltr]

Welcome aboard.

Never had a puppy so never had this issue. I did a little searching for a post that I read some time ago that might help you. Others will chime in eventually. The weekends are kind of quiet around here so give it a couple days.

In the meantime read through this post and hopefully it will give you some ideas. One thing I do know is that saying no in a quiet voice is not going to cut it. You need to use your biggest/loudest voice.

Good luck.

 

 

[hheldorfer]

Welcome to you and Buddy!  Agree with remltr above - a low voice doesn't seem to cut it with Cairns.  I use my "demon voice" when I want Buffy to know I'm serious.  

I'm sure you'll get more replies within a few days if not sooner.  Until then, there are lots of posts about this type of behavior that may give you some ideas.

[Min D]

When our cairn Tewcsby was about that age, I too thought I had an aggressive dog, but that isn't how he turned out at all. I'm not really sure what the situation is but it sounds like he is getting excited And wound up after eating and is more playing and rough housing than aggression Tewcsby use to do that as well - he still does....but less "rough" about it. We had to teach him to calm down ( which we're still working on - he is 10 months now) and how to 'soft bite' . I would also consider getting help if you think it's necessary from a dog trainer in your area, just to ease your mind and get some tips.

Also your wife probably needs to be part of the whole working with your pup as she will need to be above him In the family pack as well.

It turned out that Tewcsby is very affectionate and loving and not agressive , but it also took getting advise, teaching him the rules and letting him know who was the boss.

i doubt that you have an "agressive dog" he's probably too young for that, but I know how you're feeling because I was very worried as well.

Tewcsbys mom

[pkcrossley]

sounds like you have a healthy and very normal cairn puppy, who is entering the phase where some critically important things have to happen. there are plenty of specific things you can do to deal with immediate problems, but what i think of here is the importance of managing buddy's whole world in general. cairns have a nice ability to sum up an entire scenario, in strategic terms, and push at every weak point. it is important to convince buddy that you control his whole world --in a benevolent and fair way, but you control it.  he should be on his best-boy behavior at all times. make sure he is 100% on sit-stay, and then use it --make him sit quietly before he gets fed (and if you want to go the whole way put your fingers in the bowl and make him eat around them (wear gloves if you want); make him sit quietly before he gets leashed or goes out, before he gets in the car, etc. if he is pushy with his toys, make him sit quietly before his toys are tossed or before he is invited to play tug. when he is pushy or mouthy, get up and go away and don't pay any attention to him till he is good. this is important: if you have a multi-person household, every single person must be on board. nobody can sneak him treats or let him not be courteous because they want to be his special friend. all cairns will happily accept that you get more by being nice and  team player than by trying to conquer the world, but only after they have given up all hope --all-- of being in charge. they don't give up right away. they will test every possible angle before giving up. but once buddy is convinced that there is no getting around you, and that you are good and trustworthy leader, he will accept and be happy about it. but for a time you have to be absolutely consistent. he has to believe he has no way on earth to make you flinch, or give up, or back down, and most of all he has to believe he cannot make you angry or unhappy --otherwise, he will spend his time pushing your buttons, because he is a cairn. 

[Hillscreek]

Very true pk. Making Angus sit before everything we did made a huge difference. So much did I do this that eventually he learned 'when in doubt, sit'. It took a while and persistence was required but once he got it in his head we wouldn't be doing anything til he sat, life became much easier. I'm an old lady and couldn't manage a cairn - or any dog actually - that was jumping, play biting or whatever it might be. I do not have a loud voice but I can have a firm one.  Angus knows the difference. Nowadays I don't even have to ask him to sit till I put his leash on or get his meal or whatever. He is already sitting there looking up with his bright, dark eyes saying 'OK Ma. I'm ready. Let's do it'.

Angus was just like Buddy and I dare say like most young cairns. Full of energy, bounce, self confidence. Not aggressive just ALIVE and ready for anything.

[Sam I Am]

In my experience with terriers, Cairn and Scotties, they are all different and unique . No two are the same. Some are total cuddle bugs like Rosie the Scottie . We then had Jock the Cairn and although he had attitude, was amazingly easy to train. Our previous Cairn going back years called Pep, was a total mushball.  Our previous Scottie Sandie, was a lovely dog also, no attitude but very aloof. I just want to point out that not all Cairns are a handful because saying that to me makes the breed sound like a dog that is nasty, difficult to train etc and not attractive to people that want this wonderful breed in their lives.. I love the Cairn breed as I do most terriers for their spirit, joy of life and spunk. Some are just a bit more "spunkier" than others. 

[pkcrossley]

i love the breed.

 

if anything, the "worse" they are the more i like them

[Lynn in TN]

Kelly was a handful at this age. She was known as JAWS, and a few other choice words. She made my 6 foot 190 pound husband jump up on the couch (literally) screaming in pain as she was attacking his ankles. I think she weighed maybe 3 pounds. It was so funny.

The nice voice didn't work then and it doesn't work most of the time now. She gets the nice voice once, then she gets the scary voice. When it is because of biting there is no nice voice. You need to be firm, rough, loud sounding tone. NO! Biting needs to be stopped. For food aggression hand feed the pup a few kibbles at a time.

Teaching them to sit, and stay, come, Cairns like to learn and they are very smart. Kelly was the easiest dog to train I have ever had. With Terriers, they are independent and won't always obey, that doesn't make them dumb, it's just they are smart enough to know they don't have to.

The zoomies don't stop. Kelly is almost 6 years old, still does it, though not of and on all day like when she was a pup. Every night at about 10:00pm.

It sounds to me like you have a wonderful normal Cairn that has a great personality. I too, love the breed, and it seems that the worse they are the more I like it. We sometimes forget that Kelly was ever difficult. She was so cute, and became even more so with age. She is the best little pal in the world, and is always ready for anything. I love her.

[sanford]

1 hour ago, Lynn in TN said:

...With Terriers, they are independent and won't always obey, that doesn't make them dumb, it's just they are smart enough to know they don't have to...

I've always said the same thing!

[kjwarnold]

Our Phinney is 5 1/2 months old now; he's our fourth Cairn Terrierist!  Yes, they can be little devils at that age and just don't know better.  They also like to test you out and see what they can get away with.  In fact, Phinney is biting DH's ankles as I type!  ?  He rarely does it to me anymore, he knows better because I'm the boss.  As Lynn said, there's no nice voice with biting.  Screaming or yelling in pain seemed to work for me, Phinney didn't want to hurt me, I guess.  Or maybe it just shocked him enough to stop.  I also tried to,always have a toy or something near to distract him from my toes or ankles.  You'll get through this phase.  Phinney doesn't do it much anymore (except with DH occasionally ?).

I also agree with making them Sit for anything.  Phin sits automatically for meals now, as well as when we come in the house so I can take off his leash.  He's actually better about that than Kirby, who's eight.

Keep at it.  Cairns are so much fun, entertaining and smart little things.  We just love them!

[Andrewthi]

Thank you for all your insights.  I think the biting is really just a phase, not to mention he is teething.  Things are getting better i think.

[Hillscreek]

Buddy you are adorable and the look in your eye tells me you are a true cairn - with intelligence and 'attitude'.

 

[hheldorfer]

You're one handsome dude, Buddy!

[pkcrossley]

oh my goodness, that's him???? i can see why why anybody would be tempted to give him anything he wants!

[Sam I Am]

Lovely boy! I wonder what colour he will turn out to be? Definitely brindle but with what looks like a lot of silver also.

[Cara L]

Hi there, and welcome. Last March I welcomed my little Wally into my world, who exhibited many of those same worrisome behaviors as a pup. In fact, I found my way to this site by a Google search for "aggressive cairn puppy," or something similar. I was so worried I had a 'bad' dog; he morphed into a snarling gargoyle during his first vet visits, would growl at me during snuggle time, and was just all-around naughty a lot of the time. As others here have noted, I see now in hindsight this was pretty typical Cairn puppy behavior. When they're just months old I really do think they're operating largely on instinct, infused with a little cunning and testing of limits. Read the forums here and heed the advice which I found invaluable - consistency was key. Nearly a year out, I've got the most wonderful little friend imaginable - sweet and even a little submissive. He loves everyone he's ever met and is secure in his place in his world. It's all good. Steel yourself and set your mind to the challenge in these early weeks; it'll be worth it! 

[sanford]

13 hours ago, Cara L said:

...my little Wally exhibited many of those same worrisome behaviors as a pup. In fact...I was so worried I had a 'bad' dog; he morphed into a snarling gargoyle during his first vet visits, would growl at me during snuggle time, and was just all-around naughty a lot of the time...I see now in hindsight this was pretty typical Cairn puppy behavior.

I never raised a cairn from puppyhood, so I am unable to comment on their puppy personalities, but reading the above prompts me to ask if perhaps their "problematic" behaviors were what appealed to, and were encouraged by the Scottish farmers who originally bred them for "vermin control". Given the harsh environments they were born into, combined with the relative lack of human interaction, (they were most likely left to hunt on their own and fend for themselves), these "aggressive" traits might have contributed to their survival success and value as working dogs. 

Again, I'm only speculating, but maybe cairns still carry these same "inborn" characteristics that we observe in some of our pups, but now breed out of them during their impressionable early months when we lovingly? raise them to be our companions.

So much for my thoroughly unscientific, (un)biased view, but still, I wonder...?

Edited January 16, 2017 by sanford

[Sam I Am]

Very well stated Stanford! Lovely, tenacious, full of life...this is what a Cairn is to me. Puppies are naughty, and willful, not unlike any baby that is testing it's boundaries. It's up to us uprights to teach them respect, and their place in the household  in a firm but loving way. Failure to do this will result in a "spoilt child". Unfortunately many shelters are a reflection of people failing to raise  their dogs properly. Terriers are a breed unto themselves, and I have discouraged a few people, mostly first time dog owners, to not start off getting a terrier if they don't feel comfortable being firm and making sure they (uprights) rule the roost.

[Cara L]

That makes sense, Sanford. Looking back, these 'problematic' behaviors do seem like exaggerated versions of pretty typical Cairn traits -- not wanting to take any orders and wanting it all on their own terms! And yup, these would've been advantageous back in the day when Cairns got to be Cairns, doing Cairny stuff like killing rodents and even making life and death decisions for themselves down a badger hole. Of course, they had rules to follow back then too, just maybe more pack driven than human.  I actually respect them *more* for having us earn their deference and trust! But once you do, as we all know, you've got a true friend.

[Dempsy's Mom]

O My Gosh .... I can see why you use a soft voice - he is so cute you don't want to hurt his feelings.  I have never had a puppy either - but I know that I use a sweet voice for Demps and Els about two times - a nice simple request and a long pause for them to respond .... after being totally ignored I have to get out my witchy voice and boy do they hop to it.  Today I had to use my witchy voice for poo walks and I have a soar throat so I really wasn't in the mood - they seemed to know not to push it.  They scooted right back in.  Love them.   Thanks for that pic and good luck with Buddy!! Welcome!