Potty Outside

[Hillscreek]

Way to go.

Once he's got a special place to potty outside that makes things much easier.

[jodi0553]

Awesome news!

[Macdaddy]

Question: does putting lil Mac in the crate ever become a negative ? This morning, he did pee outside in his spot, but Suzanne said maybe she didn't wait long enough because 5 min after they came in, he had an accident going #2 in the spot where he was paper training. I can't really fault him as he's not a machine as we aren't. Maybe it was just missing his sign. I don't think we've got the timing factor down yet. How long does it really take for him to decide that he has to eliminate completely, both solid and liquid. He's on a regular feeding schedule....twice a day and the only the food that the breeder recommended.Last night I was out in the yard with him on a leash as we've just started taking him outside since the weather is better the last few days. He just want's to play so what we've done is take him to his spot and say "hurry up, go potty" consistently. Sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. Last night for instance, I took him out and he urinated in his spot and received tremendous praise and seemed ready to play. We played for a while and then went back inside. After about 20 min in his crate, I took him out again, to see if he'd eliminate. He didn't so I put him back in his crate. This wen't on for about 3 trips. Then when we went inside, thankfully I had a pad down and he went on it. Same thing happened this morning as I mentioned earlier. We have out first vet visit today, so I'll ask there as well.

Thanks in advance

Charlie

Edited April 26, 2012 by Maddensdaddy

[bradl]

Sounds like he's learned to go one of the places you taught him ... the paper spot. It might even be the coordinates or smell of the location that he uses to mark (heh) the spot more than the actual presence of paper itself. He may even be waiting for you to finish whatever you're doing outside so he can get back inside and go at the proper place (from his perspective).

I personally think housetraining is a numbers game more than a specific bit of knowledge. Sort of like how training a sports or skill behavior like juggling is less a matter of "knowing" what to do (although that's obviously part of it) as being able to do it reliably with a consistent high quality of performance and predictability. I don't drop a club because I'm willfully denying previous knowledge, I drop a club because I haven't practiced in years and my brain-muscle interface is rusty.

[Macdaddy]

Thanks Brad. I think we're just "scratching the surface here". He really is bright and he is eager to please. We just need to sync it with us and that comes in time.

[Idaho Cairns]

You've had the dog less than a week and unless you are after some sort of canine housebreaking record my best advice is to not expect too much too soon from your little one. I am of the mind that dogs PREFER to eliminate outside because that is where all the elimination signals and triggers are evident and so long as you keep the mistakes inside well cleaned up and as odor free as possible and then pay attention to the dog's behavior, you make housebreaking much easier. There will be mistakes that will require you to clean up areas on carpets or flooring but that goes away.

Also, keeping the little one in a crate all the time prevents you from recognizing all those "potty clues" you need to get him outside to do his job. Just keep on taking him out, lavishly praising his successes, telling him "NO!" when he goes inside, and before too long and before too much damage to flooring, you will have a trained dog. It is a simple process but it does take time.

[Macdaddy]

Thanks Idaho. Excellent advice. I can't go for any records unless it's on the golf course

[Hillscreek]

Like Brad was saying he's learned two places to pee his pad (or that area) inside and the spot you take him to outside.

I think it may take him quite a while to understand that outside is where you want him to go. He's very smart like all cairns and he wants to do the right thing. Not easy to learn in a few days.

Think weeks (or in my pup's case months) before he'll really gets it. As someone said on another thread about housebreaking just relax and buy paper towels by the case and enzyme clean up stuff by the gallon- just kidding - but you will go through a lot believe me!

You can uses the special stuff you can buy, but I also found the 1/1 malt vinegar and water does a good job also. Main thing is clean up the mess at once and thoroughly. Their noses are way better than ours.

If you catch him in the act say no firmly, pick him up and take outside. If you find the little gift and didn't see him do it zip your lip and clean up. He won't know what you mean after the fact.

And for support and some entertainment read some of the past threads on housebreaking. You see how we all go through it.

And we all come the other end (excuse me :!: ) just fine.

[Macdaddy]

Well, this is Mac and he's been a wonderful addition to our lives. He's enjoying his big boy leash and collars and is becoming very accomplished at doing his business in the yard ! No accidents in two days. He's quite proud of himself after heaps of praise for understanding where to do his business. He already has a sense of himself in that way. He looks affectionately for praise when he knows he's done whats expected. He's very socialble with children and adults and even other dogs. Suzanne and I both think we made the right choice in the breed and that our breeder made the right choice in puppy for us. He's been a delight and has enhanced our days. He even likes a bath and or shower

So far, his temperament has been affectionate, un-aggressive and patient. Both with us and himself. He certainly is something else when he struts while on his leash. People stopped us yesterday and said, "what kind of dog is that?" ...........our answer was "the best kind"

Edited April 30, 2012 by Macdaddy

[bradl]

People stopped us yesterday and said, "what kind of dog is that?" ...........our answer was "the best kind"

He's a cutie!

[dbauleke]

I am going down the same road as Macdaddy. However, my puppy Pippin is 41/2 months old. I want to train him to go outside as training a dog to pee in the house seems weird to me. Anyway, Pippin knows to do his business outside. The problem is he has no problem doing his business inside as well. He will alert when he is in his crate, but not when he is out of his crate. Is there something I can do to teach the concept of alerting or is he just young and I should give him a little more time? Its so nice to be able to talk to other Cairn owners and get your ideas and thoughts.

[Macdaddy]

Unfortunately, there is a learning curve attached to our pets. While we don't want Mac to go in the house or in my apartment at all, as we've learned here, Rome wasn't built in a day (as I've been told

While Mac was paper trained, if there was paper anywhere, he'd prob try and go on it. The key for us has been trying to limit his exposure to different parts of the house unless on leash or being held.He has the run of the dining room which is fine while he's training. These dogs are smart, They will get it and we see the progress daily. Mac has had no accidents at night and has been crated every night he's been with us. He's in from bout 1030 till about 630/645. Upon opening the crate in the morning, we pick him up, put on his harness and take him out immediately. He's been consistent in the morning and is beginning to find "his fav spots". Only now do I understand 2 weeks later, that standing in the rain with him in 40* temps at 8pm and asking him to "go" was fruitless. He knows when he has to go and we didn't know his signals. We're picking up on them now and if we aren't, he gives a little whimper to let us know. Btw........he's learning how to bark.......just when I thought we had the perfect dog :)

[Hillscreek]

Sounds like he's getting the idea. Wonderful that he can go all night in is crate. A big step forward. That's great! You guys are doing good.

You still have to be prepared go out in all weathers though. Keep taking him out regularly whatever the weather. He'll go if he has to.

It maybe a while till he learns to go on command and it may be while before he signals regularly. But like you say you will be picking up on his signals more and more.

Way to go little Mac - and you guys also!

Learning to bark?! Just wait and see what cairns can do in the barking department

[jodi0553]

Charlie, Thanks for posting pics of Mac. Finn went for his 16 week shots earlier this week and is up to 7.25 lbs already, it is amazing how fast they grow.

I'm looking for some advice. Finn is slowly getting more freedom in the house. He has figured out how to ring the bell and ask to do #2 but is continuing to do #1 in the corners of the room, usually the edge of a carpet. The catch is that the main room where we spend our time doesn't have an exterior door that Finn can go out, so, we have the bell on the baby gate blocking his access to the rest of the house. I've also been hanging his leash over the bell since he has clearly figured out that grabbing the leash means outside. He's made to ring it each time he goes out and he clearly gets it because he has rung for #2 twice now and has a few times grabbed the leash and dragged it to me to ask for #2. Any ideas on convincing him #1 also requires a trip outside and bell ring? I know he's only 4 months and he is a CAIRN and I'm nuts to hope I can housebreak this young. However, he is so smart about paper training and #2, that I think it is possible. When we take him out and give the go potty command he is more than willing to follow and then ask for his treat, so he definitely gets that potty outside yields yummy treats.

Regarding limited access to paper, funny story. I had Finn with me at work this week so that I could easily take him up to the vet for his shots since work is halfway between home and vet. I left for a minute to use the bathroom myself and came back to find that Finn had to go too. In the corner of my office, I had a small (about an inch or two high) stack of old exams that needed to be shredded. Finn went looking for the "papers" and decided my stack of exams was the proper place to go. Cannot fault him for that!

[Macdaddy]

Hi Jodi,

I know when we took Mac to his 1st vist on 4/19, he was 6lbs-14oz. He's more than that now and is really finding his way. He's had no accidents in about a week.and none with #2. He comes to work with me on occasion and my business has a large lot, one acre with grass, trees. wildlife so i or one of my loving customers get to take him for regular walks where he either goes or doesent. At my apartment, I take him out back and he usually goes. When inside, we limit his space and that seems to be key during his formative months. Constant trips out with treats in hand seem to do the trick. His signal is a slight whimper as I've discovered. He really is a sweet boy and what we've also done for for now is made little pens both at work and at our homes. They are about 3ft by 3ft. By feeding him in there, and letting him hang and relax in there, he won't "go" in there. It's like his crate only bigger. He gets his blankets and toys for the comfort feeling.Between those and many walks, he seems to be getting it. Grass is good ! He's starting his training on Wed's night so we'll see how that goes. We limit his exposure to furniture at this point other than to hold him when we're on it. He won't go potty being held. I don't know if he'll ever get to the bell, but this is working for us so far.If Finn get it for 1 act, he can get it for both. I'm sure it'll work out.

Does he ever bark ? Mac has barked 3 times in just over 3 weeks. That's it. I'm hoping but we'll see

Edited May 7, 2012 by Macdaddy

[Macdaddy]

Mac "sunning himself" yesterday on the driveway

[bradl]

Does he ever bark ? Mac has barked 3 times in just over 3 weeks. That's it. I'm hoping but we'll see

Not Finn, but Dundee really never barked until very recently - he turned two in March. He has now discovered his voice. I'm hoping he uses it on rats this coming weekend. Our first Cairn never barked either until she was well over a year. She'd "chuff" a bit, but the full on bark came later.

Enjoy the quiet time

[Macdaddy]

We are

[jodi0553]

Finn has definitely found his voice. He was quiet for a couple weeks, but now has become pretty vocal. Fortunately, he's started to bark to go out for #2. Still no #1 warning. Also, we live in a heavily wooded area and he barks at critters outside. He's gone nuts at the window at night a few times. For the most part he is quiet unless he hears something out of the ordinary and then he performs his watchdog duties with gusto, including barking and rooing. We've started working on an "it's allowed" command, basically meaning, "thank you so much for alerting me of the invading fox/robin/garbage truck/door closing in the distance/wind rustling in the leaves, I appreciate you looking out for our safety, but you can now shut up". After a few barks, he'll chuff a bit, too. I'm fine with good watchdog behavior as long as it doesn't transition to anything more.

Finn is still going #1 in his X-pen. I've taken away the newspaper, but he realizes that peeing on the hardwood floors is not allowed, so he's improvised and peed on the sheet in the pen that is meant to be a bed. He's not gone in his crate, but the x-pen is big enough that he's not bothered by eliminating in there. The other part of he's realized that hardwoods are off limits means that he is preferentially peeing on area rugs. In the sunroom where he is allowed, we have a shag area rug and I think it is just too similar to grass. If he doesn't stop going on it soon, I'm rolling the whole thing up till he starts asking to go out. I realize that he needs a #1 signal and just isn't giving one yet. He HATES the bell - I have a feeling bell training isn't going to be the solution, but I keep trying.

[Islander]

According to my vet (I seem to quote her a lot, she is a very wonderful holistic vet and we've been through a lot together with my previous cat and dog) small dogs don't always learn to give signals, but can and will hold their pee for longer and longer periods. So I'd persist with taking him out as frequently as possible.

I rolled up all my area rugs when Gus came home; my engineered wood flooring was easier to clean up and deodorize anyway, though hardwood may be fussier. I think it's great that he has learned to avoid the hardwood. He will get there!

[Hillscreek]

Ah Finn is barking at last - he IS a real cairn after all! Just kidding.

Angus has barked always as far as I can remember. He's eight months now and his bark has evolved from a sort of squeak to a real bark plus he has a excellent growl.

He doesn't over do it. I let him go woof woof at all the things you mentioned and then I tell him 'that's enough'. He's pretty good about it now.

I'd say roll up your rugs for the foreseeable future. Other people have mentioned this also.

Double cleanup all the time. Their noses are a lot more sensitive than ours. Keep him on a leash close to you and take him out frequently whether he has to go or not. This helped me with Angus at the beginning. I don't have an x-pen as not really room for it in my small kitchen where the floor is best for having puppies around being vinyl and easy clean up. I used baby gates to keep him in that area when I let him off the leash.

I never used the bell with Angus because one dog I started with this used to ring it all the time for attention and to go out whether he need to eliminate or not!

Another dog I had once was never interested in ringing the bell.They are all different. you have to experiment and find out what works for you.

I'd say that Angus has only very recently actually gone to the door or come to me or done both when he has to go. Previously I just noticed when I thought he had to go. He circled, or he stopped playing or just changed in some way. It seemed to me that that for weeks my main business during the day was keeping an eye on him all the time while I was doing other things as well. Kind of reminded me of toddler days when my kids were small.

Finn will learn but no doubt it may take a while. Remember he feels what you feel. He knows when you are exasperated. And he may get anxious.

Like us cairn puppy owners say to each other all the time buy a case of paper towels, gallons(s) of enzyme cleaner and for you.

It seems forever now but Finn will 'get it' in the end. They all do!

Edited May 9, 2012 by Hillscreek

[Macdaddy]

Hi Jodi,

Yes it can be frustrating. We've been fotunate with Mac. No accidents recently. He is fortunate that we have the ability to get him out at regular intervals and it seems that he thrives on that. A set schedule seems to be the order of the day. He knows that his business gets done outside. I really believe that setting boundaries helps with this learning process. He won't mess in his pens, either of his crates (big or travel) and this is key. Outside is for play and potty. We are always heaping tons of praise for a "job well done". On a side note, we went for our first training class last night and it's amazing what they can learn in a short period of time with the proper commands. He (and I'm partial here) was the youngest (17 weeks) in the class (4 dogs) and the smallest, however, he was the most inquisitive. He had no issue going up to larger and older dogs who were more excited than he was. I'm sure it's a trait inherent to Cairns, and one that bears close observation. Part of it has to be that he hasn't had a dangerous experience with another dog, but in a close environment, he was interested in exploring the other dogs. It was a wonderful experience, and we look forward to the next five weeks. He knows his name, how to sit, learining to hold his sit and "watch me". It's no wonder they are known for their smarts. The barking is starting infrequently. It's there but not constant yet thank God

Edited May 10, 2012 by Macdaddy

[jodi0553]

venting more than looking for advice. I know what I need to do and I do truly see the light at the end of the tunnel! Finn still hasn't decided that #1 outside is preferable to the floor. He ver quickly learned that he likes to do #2 outside and will whimper at the door or even bump the bell for it. We're still heaping praise for #1 outside and telling him no when catching him in the act inside, but he still isn't catching on. In the midafternoon or early evening, sometimes every hour on the hour still isn't often enough and he eliminates inside. He seems not to think holding it inside but not in his crate is worthwhile. Interestingly, if I have him up on the couch and he's content, he'll hold it for a few hours and in his crate he's been left for just over 5 hours during the day and sleeps all night (8 hrs +) without a peep. FORTUNATELY, we've started hanging his leash over the baby gate where the bell is (he doesn't have access to the external door regularly) and he has taken to going over there if he wants to go out. But, if we don't notice, he will pee there immediately. I think it is a really good sign that he goes over there, unfortunately, he is quiet as a mouse and sometimes when I'm working on my laptop or watching tv, i don't notice that he's quietly left his hunting post at the window till it is too late. Also, the baby gate is right by the fridge, too, and that's where he goes when he wants water! We're getting there and I know full well that he's not even 5 months yet and he's a CAIRN, but we're so close that I want it to happen!

I'm still holding out hope that bell training will work but he just has no interest in the thing and we've been trying it for a while. I think he might just be too young for it. Hillscreek, yes, I know that the potty bell can easily become the servant bell. In fact, by the time my last cairn was about 3, he completely stopped using it for potty and only used it to request playtime!

Charlie, how's Mac doing? Sounds just like a cairn from your description of obedience class! So bold, confident and independent, right? Finn has got sit and come down pat, although in the past couple weeks he's gotten very cairn-ish in his response to come so I've taught him "do you want a treat" which is a great alternate to "come" . We're working on sit-stay and down now and making some progress. I forgot how hard down is with their short little legs! What did your trainer suggest for getting Mac into a down? I think with Currey I had to resort to pulling him with a leash stomp because putting the treat on the chest or ground just didn't work. I'm pretty sure we're not doing a puppy kindergarten. Now that all the shots are on board, I've started taking him to our local town park where lots of dogs are walking and to the local pet store for socializing with dogs and to my office to meet people. On our first trip to the pet store, we met another cairn owner whose two cairns came from the same place as our guys. In fact, she had met the litter when they were very young! Small world, huh? We are having some challenges with loose leash walking, but that is mostly related to his intense prey drive, chasing birds, squirrels and for the past few days, cottonwood seeds. I knew that would be a problem from the second I met him, he showed that clearly even at 10 weeks, but oh well. I've started putting the front clip harness on every now and then to work on the leash and it is working some. I don't want to graduate to the prong collar yet, but I'm thinking about it. In a couple months, I'll get him in an intro obedience course with a cairn-experienced trainer.

[Hillscreek]

I think it is a really good sign that he goes over there, unfortunately, he is quiet as a mouse and sometimes when I'm working on my laptop or watching tv, i don't notice that he's quietly left his hunting post at the window till it is too late.

I think he is getting there. Going to the door is very good.

If he slips away quietly to do his business maybe you could keep him close to you. On a leash.

I didn't do this with Angus because I kept him in a very confined area. But I have done it with other pups. That way I know where they are at all times.

Gradually let them free when I can watch them.

Even now I keep an eye on Angus though he's never far from me. I still don't let him roam anywhere he likes - mainly because I know he'll be after shoes and towels and pillows and you name it............... Baby gates still up, most door still shut.

Angus easily learned to poop outside but he was more than five months - I'd say nearer to six before I was sure he wouldn't pee in the house.

Now he is eight months and excellent. Goes to the door or looks at me or goes to the door and whimpers.

But it sure seemed for a long time that he would never get totally reliable.

As with all things cairn endless patience is required as you know

Good to be having lots of fun otherwise

Edited May 25, 2012 by Hillscreek

[jodi0553]

woohoo, something clicked! He still isn't signaling us with any sounds, but he's going to the door then if we don't come right away, instead of emptying his bladder, he's walking over to us, giving us the "hey look at me" look and then walking back to the door. Saturday evening he paced back and forth like that 3 times till I realized what was going on and he's been doing it since. Only 2 accidents over the past 4 days and one was 100% my fault!