Potty Outside

[Macdaddy]

Hi Everyone,

My g/f and I will be getting our first cairn in a few weeks ! We did much research on the breed and have spoken to many breeders including the one we are getting Madden from. As in most of the forum posts I've read, this seems to be a common question. I have friends who have shelties and the have a pen in their back yard for "samson & delilah" to do their business. They'll just say to their dogs, "get in the pen" and their dogs just go. This is after they ring a bell hanging from the door knob to let their owners know they have to go.

Suggestions ?

[Sue G]

Well, I hate to poo poo the idea (funny) but I can't begin to imagine telling a Cairn to "get in the pen" and having their dog just do it. I can't even imagine letting Ozzy off his leash long enough to try it. There are some very obedient Cairns out there, I'm sure. It's quite common though that their independent nature makes certain tasks nearly impossible to teach. I would suggest a fenced in yard. I have one, and I LOVE it. The bell trick might work, as they would be motivated to go outside. They're smart little boogers, but not the most eager to please breed in the book. Just my experience mind you.

[Macdaddy]

Thanks Sue. I wasn't suggesting that our Cairn would just get in the pen We've been warned never to let him off a leash as they'll run and not come back. My friends shelties do have a fenced in yard. We don't and are searching for ideas about how to allow him the exercise he needs. We're considering a run ?

[bradl]

A run can certainly work. Be warned - Cairns can get bored pretty quickly in a run - most will dig for entertainment and they can do some pretty impressive freelance landscaping (if you're old enough, think "Hogan's Heroes" ) Some will also bark in a run. Be prepared for that possibility.

I think if you're very verrrrrrrrry patient - and persistent! - in taking them to a pen to potty, after a year or so (tops) you will probably be able to turn them into the pen and they will most likely, most often, do their business fairly promptly. On average.

Overall I'd recommend a brisk walk for exercise of both kinds

As to the bell, we've trained a couple to "ring for service" but eventually it turned into less of a "let me out" notice and more of a "butler pull" -- as in, come over here, pay attention to me, and give me a treat!

Welcome, and have fun with your pup when you get him - Cairns are a riot.

[Macdaddy]

Thanks bradl. This site looks to be quite a resource for advice, and for "support" I'm sure everyone needs a bit of that at times. The way I'm thinking is to not take it all so serious in the beginning, much like we would with an infant. The puppy needs to get used to us and we'll shape his schedule to ours as much as possible. In return, he'll get unconditional love, a warm home and companionship. I hope we're good "masters" as we are both looking forward to it but are a little scared which I assume is normal?

[Idaho Cairns]

No need to be scared, you are acquiring an very intelligent dog that learns quickly. Best way for you to get the housetraining done is simple observation. After a bit you will know when your dog has to go and needs to go by watching his behavior. Since you do not have a fenced yard, keep taking him out on a leash, make sure he understands (by using praise) what "Go Potty" means and eventually he will follow your command which is a real godsend on those cold night or wet nights when you have to go out. Under your circumstances I would insist the dog go to the bathroom before you do any other activity --- get that out of the way immediately because on times when you cannot play or let the dog investigate because of the weather, you want that job done.

Best way is to take him to some designated spot where all the "potty smells" are and keep repeating "Go Potty". Make sure he understands that before any fun comes, his job has to be done and you will accelerate the process. Good luck, keep us informed.

[KShep]

Thanks Sue. I wasn't suggesting that our Cairn would just get in the pen We've been warned never to let him off a leash as they'll run and not come back. My friends shelties do have a fenced in yard. We don't and are searching for ideas about how to allow him the exercise he needs. We're considering a run ?

We use a bell and we love it. It's straightforward communication between us and her. But she is a smart little thing and sometimes uses the bell as a butler pull! She's not having us be 15 minutes late for her dinner!

Potty training wasn't easy for us but I don't think that is a Cairn trait. Every dog is different. My advice is not to use the bell before 12 weeks. He doesn't have much control before then. Just become familiar with his behaviors, and as Brad says, buy some natures miracle- the gallon. Yes, the gallon!

[Carolinasmom]

This is my 2nd Cairn that I trained to use a bell. Ellie learned it quite quickly. I don't think it always means she has to go but rather that she wants out, (more likely to get the squirrels at our bird feeders!) Ellie was 5 mos. when we got her about 5 weeks ago and I started the bell after about a week. It's a huge jingle bell that hangs on a LONG leather string so that it is nose level. She doesn't always use it.

[Lynn in TN]

We were lucky with Kelly(going potty), but it didn't feel like that at first. I couldn't tell when she had to go. She sniffed the floor constantly while wagging her tail so I couldn't go by that. It was hard to tell when she needed to go at first. I agree with Idaho about not letting the pup play or do activities when you take it to potty, do activities at a different time. I gave Kelly five minutes if she didn't go I put her in her crate for 15 to 30 minutes then took her back out for 5 min. I kept repeating until she went then gave her lots of good girl go potty. Sometimes I would let her play and sniff after she went but not every time. It payed off in the long run, if I am in a hurry I can say go potty and she will on command in less than 5 minutes (If she has to go that is) On her own she started scratching at the door (like a cat will) to go out to potty. Once I was folding clothes in the bedroom and she came and got me (pulling me by my pants legs with her teeth) she had to go bad that day barely made it off the porch before she went.

They are very smart, that being said it gives them an intelligence that other dogs don't have, like how to manipulate their upright to doing what they want you to do, or how they really don't have to do what you say. Just don't get confused and think they are not smart because they don't mind you, they know exactly what you want them to do they just sometimes choose not to listen.

Good luck with your little cuttie pie. We really like pictures on this site.

[Beau's Beauty]

I have just Adopted Beau from a City area, let just say i introduced him to grass in my large fenced in yard. Hoping he could do his business out there, he is trained not to go in the house. But only seems to do business on walks. I dont mind walking him, but i am wondering if he is holding it for the walk when he could rather go in the yard. Any ideas on how to train him to use my yard so he is not holding anything in? I heard to pick up his droppings from the walks and place them in an area in my yard. has anyone tried this? Thank you!

[bradl]

Patience and persistence. If you can put them on lead and stay with them in the yard until they go, *then* go for a walk, they will eventually figure out that going in the yard is the ticket to a walk.

Warning - Cairns are stubborn. You may be standing like a lamppost for a very long time.

[Jack]

Never tried it from walks but did move 'accidents' to the puppy pad in early training. Later we moved them to the yard. Seemed to work for us. We let Jack see them moved and he seemed to get the idea that that was where they belonged.

[Beau's Beauty]

Both great! Thanks!

[Sue G]

I had a heck of a time getting Ozzy to potty in the yard after fencing in my yard. I used to walk him 3 times a day and it did seem like he was holding it until I would walk him. For a while I would go outside with him and encourage him to wander around the yard. If we were outside long enough he would eventually go. Mornings took a little longer since I had to make sure he went before I left for work and would for a while end up still walking him so I wouldn't be late for work. He's pretty good now, but it did take a while. These are stuborn little creatures, and once they have what they think of as a routine in place it is hard to break. I think someone else said patience and persistence. They are right on about that! Beau will get it eventually.

[Hillscreek]

I did more or less what Lynn in TN did. I took and still do take take him out on a leash first thing from his crate before I do anything else.

Potty outings were and still are just that. Not for playing or sniffing around for more than a minute or two. When my pup 'went' I praised him mightily as he was doing his business which is what I call it.

He soon got the idea and though we had accidents on and off until maybe the last few weeks he learned to go quickly and go on command - a blessing in a Northern winter or very rainy day!

Patience and persistence is the key as others have said.

Good luck. Send pics and ask questions. Tons of people can help.

[Macdaddy]

Hi everyone, We were able to bring our little boy home yesterday! He's 15 weeks now and his name is now officially "Mac"

With the nor-easter we just experienced here yesterday, the drive home from the breeder was long, but he was a champ the whole way. We think he's got a wonderful personality....very calm and collected. We set up an area in the dining room on hardwood floor with his crate and some toys. It's a good size room and theres plenty of room to explore. WE gated off the kitchen and the living room. This way, when he has an accident, it's easy to clean up. I took him out multiple times during the afternoon and evening and he urinated but did'nt defacate. After he ate at 6pm I took him out every 15 minutes in the rain holding an umbrella over him while he licked the grass and sniffed around but no elimination. After about 9pm, he started to act like he wanted to go and strted to on the floor. I said no, picked him up and brought him outside again but still no luck. My g/f put papers down by the door and he eliminated there. He also dis this morning after he ate. My question is......would it be worth saving some of his stool and putting it in the area we want him to go in so he associates it with that place ?

He really is an Angel and was sonderful in his crate all night. Just a slight whimper. He was told he's ok and we're right here so go to sleep and he did.

Suggestions on getting him to go outside because he's not used to it yet ?

Thanks,

Mac's dad

[jodi0553]

Mac's Dad, since I'm a week ahead of you going down the exact same road, here's how I've been handling things. Finn and Mac are very well paper trained. While they've had lots of outdoor time and lots of attention, they've spent very little time on grass. Finn was nuts about playing in the grass when we got him home and it took at least a day till he'd pee outside at all. He would actually hold it and then go on his papers as soon as he came in. The crate is your friend. Use it! After getting up in the morning, take Mac out immediately. Tell him to "go potty" or whatever words you want to use. Once he goes, tell him "good go potty" and act like a crazy idiot giving tons of praise and a really tasty treat. Make your girlfriend do the exact same thing. A consistent message will get through fast. He doesn't know what go potty means now, but it should sink in fast. With Finn, we have his name, "go potty" and "come" taken care of. They definitely leaned NO already. Finn is working on sit now and it has taken about 4 days. For the record, it took me about four weeks to teach my last cairn sit! You are going to have to act like a moron out in your yard for all the neighbors to hear, but it is worth it!

Mac is super people oriented (I adore his personality!) so he should want to please. If you think it should be time to go (Finn is lasting anywhere from 1 - 4 hours between potties, shorter when in his Xpen with papers available) take him out and urge him to go. If he doesn't, turn around and bring him back in. Some say to crate between trips out. It can work quite well. If you think it is time to go, go out, give him a couple minutes, then turn him back around and crate him for 10 - 15 mins. Repeat till you get outside potties. Actually, going out shopping or to work and crating has been our biggest ally in housebreaking because he has to go quite a bit when you get him out, and so he does go outside. Finn learned in 2 days that potty outside = treat. He will still willingly go on his papers, but he is learning that papers don't get treats but he hasn't figured out how to ask yet. We've started bell training (Read old posts, I learned it on here 6 yrs ago!) and he actually rang on Saturday then immediately peed on the floor by the bell. We thought he was just playing with the bell. Our fault!

Good luck!

[Tuesday]

Welcome and Congrats on your bundle of teeth! You are going to fall in love very soon.

You've gotten some pretty solid advice here regarding potty training. As with any type of dog, patience and a sense of humor will help you in these first few months of Cairn ownership.

Cairns are very, very intelligent, and one thing we did from the get go with Murphy was clicker train him. It works for a multitude of commands and tricks. I'm sure you could use that to your advantage for the bell ringing for potty or butler service. We also crated him from the day we got him, and he LOVESLOVESLOVES his box, also known as Murph's Turf.

good luck, and we ALWAYS love to see pictures!!

[Macdaddy]

Jodi,

Thanks so much for the advice. Right now with the weather, he's been shy about going outside (cold and rain as you know). I have Suzanne reading your post above and we'll do the best we can. We did move his "paper/pad" spot right next to the door and do give lots of praise when he does what we expect. He's had 2 accidents in 48 hr's, but they were wet. It hasn't been easy to get him outside, but he's in a controlled area and I'll work with him tonight very diligently when getting home from work. We did love his personality from the get go and were drawn to him immediately.No barking and only slight whimpering before nitey nite

[Hillscreek]

Cold rain snow - try go outside no matter what. I know what it is like I live next door in PA

You could pick him up and take him out.Or put his leash on and give him a treat when he walks out.

I've just got through housebreaking my seven month old Angus. I have spent many, many shivery times out there with him over the last few months. Just thankful not much snow this winter. But it sure is worth it now!

He was not 100% reliable till nearly six months old. Some are quicker but many are five months or more till reliable.

Patience and persistence and as someone else said a sense of humor is good. Try not to get too irritated if he seems to backtrack. He will get it in the end. They all do.

The crate is a wonderful help.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Hillscreek

[bradl]

With puppies who want to play (or run back inside where it's warm and dry) we have resorted to using a small, short expen to corral them. We still hang out and watch them carefully so we can catch them (and praise, and release) when they do finally squat.

[Macdaddy]

Thx Brad..We're on it. I can't tell you all how much this site helps and acts as a wonderful resource..it's a blessing

[Macdaddy]

And thank you too Hillscreek for your warm advice and support

[Idaho Cairns]

I'm all for suiting up with waterproof stuff, getting outside with the pup and waiting until it does its job so I can go into raptures about what a "good dog" it is. The weather will not hurt the pup and you can wear Gore-Tex so wet/cold shouldn't be a problem for either one. Once that "area" is established outside the job becomes easier. Should take you a couple of weeks, especially this time of year, to get your little one lined out.

[Macdaddy]

Well, Little Mac has started doing his business outside I'm happy to report.......lets see if he can keep it going Suzanne is doing a wonderful job with him during the day and I try and provide relief after work

Edited April 25, 2012 by Maddensdaddy