I've been duped.

[wheezie23]

Despite all my research and time and information given to me, I believe I have been duped by the breeder I bought Tucker from. I thought I had done the homework, asked the right questions. I wouldn't have even thought of her if she hadn't called me after so long.

Here's what I thought: When we got to her house, she was waiting with the puppies outside. They had been freshly bathed and looked very healthy. The parents were onsite and seemed to be in good health, if not a little shaggy. We talked for about 45 minutes while we watched the pups play and romp. We talked about the health guarantee, type of food, what to do if I had any questions. It all seemed fine.

Here's what I know: Tucker has had diarrhea since coming home. He also broke out in what I call *body dandruff* which I now believe is from a flea dip she bathed him with. His skin is dry and flaking off all over. I called her to see if she had any suggestions, but her daughter said she was "at the kennel". At the Kennel? The daughter said the kennel is down the road from their home. Hmmm. I called again and she has yet to return my calls.

At the vet, he said Tucker is in good health, no parasites, etc. He's a little concerned about the flaky skin. It's very pink and irritated-looking. But he said it doesn't look like puppy mange or anything like that b/c Tucker isn't itching. He suggested I try him on a different food, lamb & rice or chicken & rice, and not to bathe him. I'm also giving him a supplement of Brewer's yeast. In two weeks we'll see if he's better. Then he noticed in the health record I got from the breeder that Tucker had already been wormed FIVE times, the first time at 10 days. He said this was very common with puppies from commercial breeders.

So, I may not ever get confirmation, but I believe I may have unknowingly contributed to the problem of puppy mills. She may not be a true *miller* but who knows? She got my money and I'll probably never hear from her again. If I wasn't so desperate to get a puppy, I might have noticed the red flags before.

The bottom line is that I love Tucker. I wouldn't trade him for anything now. But I'll never be as certain of his health as I was with Zoe. I'm looking at him now wondering what, if any, genetic disorders he may come down with as he gets older. Chalk it up to lessons learned.

thela

[wags]

The people at the feed store told me when their dogs have diarrhea, they just cook chicken and rice for them for a few days.

The canned food- at least the kind I use, Canidae, has some fat in it which would contribute to to the problem.

[CarCarDawn]

Hi! Sorry to hear about Tucker's dilemma - - don't know what to do about the flaky skin - - heard that Gold Bond wash and powder can make a significant difference. I do know what to do for the diarrhea - - boil either chicken or ground beef with plain white rice - - feed it to him in small amounts several times a day - - works like a charm. Riley has had troubles like that due to liver shunts and this seems to work. Good luck!!!

[maggie's_mom]

Oh my gosh, that is so awful! Yea, down at "the kennel" would have alarmed me too. I'm sure she made sure not to mention this at all.

Good luck with Tucker. Does he seem to be in any discomfort from any of this?

I feel for you.

[wheezie23]

Well, I gave him the boiled chicken and rice and he gobbled it up. I may never be able to get him to eat anything else! lol The diarrhea seems to be clearing up. I hope his skin clears up. I also notice that his coat is not as thick as it should be. Time will tell if this works.

You know, I asked her specifically if her dogs were prone to skin allergies and she said no. I'm still really mad about this. I guess the reason I never suspected anything was because she lived in a very nice house in the country, seemed like a very affluent person. I had this picture in my head of what a commercial breeder or puppy miller would look like. (think white trash) Guess not.

But like I said, Tucker doesn't seem bothered by the skin problem, so that's a good thing. He's happy and full of energy!

thela

[osuvicki]

I can understand you being upset....but as you said, the bottom line is that you love Tucker and these skin problems will clear up. The breeder that I got Grace from had his dogs in a kennel attached to the house instead of keeping them all in the house with him. He let me look through it and meet Grace's mom and dad before I purchased her. I was a little surprised that his kennel was attached to the house. Kennels smell! Even well cared for ones. And if his 7-8 dogs all started barking at once...it could get very noisy that near the house. I knew people growing up with kennels attached to the house and every once in a while there would be an outbreak of fleas that would then infest their attached house. Maybe your breeder has the kennel separated from the house for those reasons or due to zoning and she is not a "puppy mill." Maybe a trip back to look a little closer might help answer some of your concerns and if you feel like you were taken advantage of...you can always file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

[wags]

Forget vindictiveness. Tucker came to you in the best way he knew how- even if it had to be through this strange lady.

Everything happens for a reason.

[CallisMom]

Thela,

At least you have an adorable little guy! Hopefully the skin condition will remedy itself. Don't feel too badly. I know of a woman who is "breeding" her dog -lives in a 2 million dollar house in a very upscale Westchester, NY town - she keeps her dog in the garage in a cage and that dog is pregnant constantly. She may by rich, she may have only one dog - but what she does is the same thing! And believe me - when someone comes to purchase her puppies they probably NEVER would get that idea of what is really going on!!

I agree with Sally - everything hasppens for a reason and now Tucker has a wonderful home with lots of love and a big sister!!

[Scully'sMom]

Thela,

I always seem to be a day late and a dollar short with my advice because I always concur with what the others here have said. Tucker did come to you for a reason - he needed a mommy that will love him to pieces and he got that.

I've always used the boiled ground beef and white rice for diarrhea and the pups just went nuts for it. I'm glad that he's eating well. That's a good sign.

I'd be @)#$(#$ too! It's like anything in life, you can do your best to be careful but stuff happens. ((((Tucker))))

[kayharley]

I feel so bad for you. On the bright side Tucker is living in a home now with responsible and caring "parents". He could have easily been bought by nasty, selfish people who wouldn't take care of his needs.

I've always listened to my little inner voice when it comes to major decisions. The breeder I'm dealing with now gives me nothing but a positive feeling. But I know how you feel about wanting something so bad that you can make excuses for not seeing the "red flags".

You will bring Tucker back to 100%. Keep us posted.

[Eliz222]

I would be very upset too! I don't think there is anything that you can do now but love your new little guy to pieces! He is now in a warm and loving home and knows only unconditional love now ...can't beat that!

[CathyAnn]

You have already fallen in love ......and, there's no guarantee there wouldn't have been problems with another breeder's pup.

Have you talked with the breeder about Tucker's health issue(s)?? Is she willing to pay for the expenses incurred?

I would certainly ask...most breeders will.

Good luck and I hope Tucker gets well soon.

Cathy

[wheezie23]

I agree with all of you that there was a reason I found Tucker. It's amazing how resillient they are. Someone else may have gotten him and not bothered to try to help him with his skin problem. Like I told my husband, Tucker is ours, period. I wouldn't trade him in even if I could. We love him and that's all that matters. My husband agrees.

As for help from the breeder, she isn't returning my phone calls. I've called 4 times now and left messages. I don't think I'll be hearing from her again. She's probably worried that I will file a complaint. Osuvicki, your description of the breeder probably is the same situation as mine. I really don't think she was a *puppy miller* but I thought these were her pets, not kept outside in kennels.

I took Tucker to Petsmart yesterday and talked to the groomer there. She gave him a good soak in an oatmeal bath and a gentle combing. I'm also going to be switching him over to the Nutro puppy formula once his diarrhea is totally cleared up. I bought a flea comb to lift the dead skin off and it worked wonderfully. It didn't seem to bother him either.

So I think he'll get better soon. It sure isn't stopping him. He is such a ball of energy. I laughed yesterday when he tried to take on a much larger dog that was walking by our yard! Thanks for all the good advice, everyone!

thela

[osuvicki]

Wheezie23, I knew my dogs weren't pets. The breeder is a respected breeder from the Detroit dog club and several other breeders told me he raises excellent show dogs and tests for genetic problems. Knowing that...I did not expect the dogs to be pets living in a home and was fully prepared to see kennels. I married into a family of veternarians and kennel owners and to me the word "kennel" isn't automatically a bad word. It depends on the breeder, the purpose for breeding the dogs, which then leads to how they are cared for including vet care, socialization, and cleanliness of environment. It is troublesome that the breeder hasn't returned phone calls. You don't know if she is avoiding you or out of town. I have emailed my breeder half a dozen times with questions and he gets back to me within hours and has invited me to bring Grace up to a show at the end of the month to visit. The bottom line is that you love Tucker very much and will do what it takes to make him healthy....but if you have a health guarantee from the breeder.....I would consider sending her some of your vet bills. An honest breeder will feel responsible and settle with you. And if she doesn't report her to the BBB. Complaints on a BBB rating do tell other people there is an issue with the breeder. I can take Grace back for a full refund for a year if she develops any health problems...but you would have to pry her out of my cold dead hands first! lol.

[CathyAnn]

Not sure 'how' you paid for her?? Check, cash, credit card??

Might wanna leave a message that payment will be stopped if no return calls ........bet she'll call back real quick!

Cathy

[MikeC]

Thela,

While I completely share your feelings and concerns, I agree with Sally. There really is not much you can do at this point. Regardless of Tucker's "beginnings", he is now in a loving home and will have a wonderful life. As he gets older, more frequent visits to the Vet for checkups may help alleviate your concern about any possible inherited health issues. I'm sure that you and Tucker are going to have many wonderful, happy years together.

MikeC

[Mama Kim]

Think of it this way, Tucker has been rescued from what may have been a bad situation. I'm sorry you were 'taken' by this breeder. I have no further advice. Everyone else has already said all I would say quite nicely. At least you have a sweet little puppy to love.

[wheezie23]

You're absolutely right, MikeC and Mamakim. He's my heart now, and as you so eloquently put it, Osuvicki, they'd be prying Tucker out of my cold dead hands first too!

I'm not too concerned about the vet bills as of yet since my vet hasn't charged me anything for advice. I paid for the regular puppy exam like I normally would. He's a wonderful man that we've taken all our pets to for years. He never did charge me for treating Zoe after hours on the day she was hit. I paid for the shot, that's all. Now, if it turns into something more serious, I will definitely let the breeder know and see what she's willing to do. (provided I'm able to get in touch with her)

Thela

[wheezie23]

I finally found out the name of the puppy food she gave me to feed tucker. No wonder he had diarrhea and was pooping so much!! The name of the food is Diamond. Anyone heard of it? I looked it up and this is what it's made of:

thela

Ingredients

Chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), wheat flour, beet pulp, fish meal, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, egg product, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganese oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

[osuvicki]

Diamond

[Guest Stacey Roy]

I know just how you feel. We got "taken" too, and we consider ourselves bright, knowledgeable people who would never buy a puppy mill dog. But the breeder offered to meet us half way, although he assured us that the parents were on premises, etc. etc. We went for it, and the minute he put that puppy in our hands, our brains turned to soup. Nothing he said made sense, and we knew we were being taken - but we were in love. Handing over an envelope full of cash in a parking lot is something only idiots would do. That was us! After we had him five days, Maxwell had genetic problems (CMO) and high vet bills . Did the guy ever return our calls or offer us one dime toward vet bills? I guess you know the answer. Still, everything is for a reason, and I think we were meant to get Maxwell and see that he got the best care and 24/7 loving. So, your puppy will get better, and it's fate after all, that brought you together.

[wags]

Diamond is supposed to be good. But Wes couldn't eat their "Food for a puppy's Soul," either, though it had been highly recommended. Maybe because it was dry? I had contacted the company but I don't think they had any canned items to substitute.

[CarCarDawn]

Hi! Probably all you know my story already -- - but even with a reputable breeder (mine has been breeding for over 20 years - - 12 years with Cairns - - and never a problem) that things can go wrong! After 2 months of loving Riley it was determined that he had liver shunts - - the main one was ligated but he still has numerous smaller ones that give him trouble from time to time. Basically he vomits once or twice a month because the bile just sits in his stomach and makes him sick! My breeder offered to replace him (not an option) or refund my money but I chose to assume all expenses. As with a child - - you never know how things will turn out - - you take the good with the bad. She has a child that was born with a mental deficiency - - - she loves that child as much - - or more - - in spite of this. We have talked several times - - sometimes life doesn't go the way we want it to but we do the best we can. Riley is a special dog - - - he is so smart and so affectionate - - I wouldn't trade him for any other!!!

[wheezie23]

Wow, Diamond seems like a good food co. I was suprised that the first two ingredients in the puppy food were chicken by-product meal and ground corn. The wheat flour also concerned me because of his skin, so I'm just going to transfer him to the Nutro Lamb & Rice.

I did hear from her last night. She said her daughter never gave her the messages, which I can believe having a teenage daughter myself. She seemed very concerned, was very nice, and suggested I massage some baby oil into Tuck's skin. She wants me to call her in a couple of days to see if he's better. So, that's a good thing. I hope that I have misjudged her.

Thela

[Guest Zips Mom]

Hi: Just a few thoughts. We have a 10 Mo. old Cairn, after having 2 Westies. I did a lot of looking up on Cairns. I found that Corn and esp. Wheat can cause problems. I gave Zip something with wheat in it and in 2 days he was scratching. When I got him his skin was dry also. He gets Lipoderm in his food, could also use Safflower Oil in his food. Also found that the Cairns tend to have dry skin and not to bathe them too often. Zip has had one bath since we got him. We use puppy wipes on him every 2 weeks or so and he is brushed 3-4 times week. I mean thoroughly, to remove any dead hair. As to diarhhea, has he been checked for Giardai or Coccidia, both can cause loose stools, sometimes with blood and mucus in them. You may also want to try a food with a different protein source - duck or venison. It could be worth the try. Pat Zips Mom