Size versus "Standards"

[Marty & Sherry]

I thought I would revive this topic as we had an "experience" with judging this weekend. We entered Emmy in a B Match Saturday in which she won group. The Terrier judge seemed to like her even though she needs better grooming. She overcame our short comings by preforming very well in the ring. She kept her head up, although not truly loose lead she didn't pull & had that nice little bouncy thing going.

She lost in the Best of Match to a Clumber (which I have seen much better examples of BTW, too leggy IMHO). Anyway we talked to the judge after the match and she said she thinks Emmy is too long & that it will hurt her in the ring.

Here is the maddening part. She is 9 3/4 tall and 14 1/2 long (by the formula in the above post she is about as close to 60/40 as you can get). She is nearly perfect according to the standard measurementwise. The thing that I do see is that she is just barely over 12 lbs. Maybe that makes her appear longer than she really is in proportion???

We are going to start showing her for real next month as we are not going to let one judges interpretation stop us. If nothing else we will help other Cairns get points! My question is are we going to run into this much? Is the cobbier Cairns going to be the trend even if they are way out of proportion to the standard? Are the judges trying to turn Cairns into bigger Norwiches? Could this just be an overworked judge that got "lucky" enough to have to stick around for the B Match final & really isn't qualified for all breeds?

[Greg P]

How old is Emmy? Is she a puppy or fairly mature?

The good news is I have seen very nice "small" proportionatly correct cairns go on to win an AKC championship. Sometimes it takes a longer campaign. A sure fire test to know if your cairn is correct, and not consistently winning is to see how many "bridesmaid" (otherwise known as Reserve Winners Bitch) wins she receives along the way.

The smaller cairn may have a problem winning many BOB's and big show wins. However, if you have a correct cairn, show her with pride!

As for judging, it is subjective. Sometimes the better dog loses because the inferior dog is a better showman. Some all breed judges know cairns better than others and who knows what they are looking at.

Most every (good) dog has its day. It's all part of the game. Be prepared for victory and heartache. Above all, always sincerely congratulate the winner when the judge picks someone else.

At any rate, she was picked first in the terrier group. Nicely done!

[Hillscreek]

I was very interested to read these comments.

When I came to look for a Cairn Terrier I was very surprised to see a number of dogs showing who seemed quite large and square with a shortish neck and apparently round heads.

I was thinking about the smaller more scruffy looking Cairns I remembered from my childhood in England many many years ago.

I see that the round looking heads are mainly from the grooming. The rest I suppose must be current fashion which seems to guide who wins in many breeds in the show ring.

I think the pup I have will be bigger than those I remember but I'm delighted to find the special Cairn nature remains: so smart and independent and loving. And I see how flexible and agile he is as he investigates all dark places and tunnels he finds. Not to mention how excellently fast he can dig a hole!

[PeppersMom]

I have heard that as far as function, the Cairn needs to be able to "bend" in the back bone to navigate through tunnels. I have been told a longer body is more functional. I had a short bodied red boy that did not bend in this way.. My larger boy is 11 3/4 " at the shoulder but visibly longer....longer neck for peeking? I'm not so sure about that one. Remember the Cairn needs to cover long distances running while maintaining stamina..they were used in packs..not sure the functionality of a long neck.

[Hez]

I would be really interested to know if the bigger dogs are more likely to be male. My cairn now about 18months is just over 11kg. haven't mesured him, but am often told by people he is one of the biggest cairns they have seen. I have meet a very large chunk of his immediate breed lines and did notice that the dogs were deff larger and heavier by far than the bitches. His lines are mostly sweedish (Raskins) with a few UK and US lines thrown in (mainly further away)

His grandfather, a sweddish import is an Aus ch and has nearly completed his earth dog title last time I spoke to the breader. He is well on the large side, on par with my boy. I also remember him being v solid like Gus. My dog might be big - But fat he is not! I feel like if Gus was any smaller, well he would just be a coloured westie..

I've seen one of his litter mates shown and have noticed, a lot of how long the neck looks seems to have to do with how they are presented. Here there seems to be a habit of really yanking the head up and out rather than letting the dog stand at a natural attention. Its almost like you can teach a dog to have a long neck - I know that sounds obsurd but while Gus and his brother look v similar and I can see that Gus has a neck, he certainly doesn't resemble a swan when he is running around, but put him on a table and yank his head and suddenly I feel the need to run away in case he sticks his neck out and honks at me!

And I would suggest Gus uses his neck to look over his shoulder when he is running away with a pair of my underwear, without it he probably wouldn't be able to keep running straight!