To breed or not to breed?

[tobysmom]

Hi all-

I am wondering if anybody has any advice about breeding. I have a 6 month male Cairn and his Vet has asked us if we plan to neuter him...We were planning on it however, my husband has posed the question of studding him. I would love to...our pup is so very adorable and good tempered but I wouldn't even know where to begin if we did breed. Any suggestions?

Thanks!!

[bradl]

Did you buy him from a breeder? Does the contract state whether he can be bred at all? Why do you believe he should be bred? What's his pedigree? What are his strong points with respect to the breed standard and what are his faults?

Show him to his championship and if he has something to offer serious breeders, they will ask if they might use him.

[tobysmom]

We got him from...gasp! a pet store..I do have all of the breeder information where he came from and his bloodlines. Breeders are in Montana. He fits breed standard almost completely however, he does have ( a small bit of ) white on his chest and the vet says he is somewhat small for his age. His pedigree is with APR.( I had never heard of that until we got him.) We never really thought to breed him. I would only consider it because I know so many people who want a Cairn but, I want to do what is best for our dog. We would only breed to have pups as pets not for show. I just can't decide...

[bradl]

We would only breed to have pups as pets not for show. I just can't decide...

The purpose of shows is to verify that only high quality dogs are bred. Speaking only for myself, as I was running away from a pet store, I'd swerve to avoid a backyard breeder who was breeding "just for pets" or who claimed "dog shows are too political" or who used an "alternative registry" such as APR. I want a breeder who is willing to put his or her dogs down to stand in judgement in front of AKC judges and knowledgeable peers alike.

My suggestion would be to get in contact with knowledgeable breeders in your part of the country. Use the breeder referral page and the affiliated club page to find breeders and clubs near you. (In the case of clubs, "near" may be hundreds of miles.) You can have your boy evaluated by knowledgeable people and learn about what it takes to be a responsible stud owner.

[tobysmom]

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't know that APR was an alternative registry. This is my first time with a purebreed, I have always had pound puppies...I would like to have him evaluated and I'll look into that. Do you know if he can he be registered by AKC if he has an APR registry?

[Guest posting as: Ladybroc]

We got him from...gasp!   a pet store..I do have all of the breeder information where he came from and his bloodlines.  Breeders are in Montana. He fits breed standard almost completely however, he does have ( a small bit of ) white on his chest and the vet says he is somewhat small for his age. His pedigree is with APR.( I had never heard of that until we got him.) We never really thought to breed him. I would only consider it because I know so many people who want a Cairn but, I want to do what is best for our dog. We would only breed to have pups as pets not for show. I just can't decide...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

***TobysMom -- I am a longtime Cairn breeder and I think I understand your feelings about wanting to breed your boy. Many pet owners get this same "urge" because their dogs are truly so cute and lovable and often their friends would like one "just like him." The writer that advised getting an AKC Championship on a dog that is going to be bred is on the right track. There is an old, but true, adage: "Any dog good enough to be bred should be good enough to get his/her championship."

But, beyond that; you say you have a pedigree. What do you know about the dogs in that pedigree? Have any died of kidney or liver disease, have any been people or dog aggressive, skin problems, digestive problems, etc., etc., etc. You don't know because you haven't had the opportunity to become familiar with the dogs and their "breeders." A reputable breeder knows the dogs in the pedigree; something about their histories and if there have been genetic weaknesses in the pedigree (which usually would cause a good breeder to make some "corrections" or maybe NOT breed the dog with the weakness) for obvious reasons. Good breeders breed to maintain or improve the breed. There is no way you can do this without extensive knowledge of the dog's ancestry.

Please take my advice and neuter your pet. As a reputable breeder, when I sell a puppy as a pet, I REQUIRE the buyers to have the dog spayed or neutered and I withhold the AKC paperwork until they provide me with a certificate from the vet saying this has been done. What does a pet store require? That you pay them the money for the dog and get out the door -- no guarantees (beyond a 72 hour time frame for a vet visit), no follow-up information, no concern for the dog whatsoever once it is SOLD -- sold being the operative word.

I also do volunteer work in Cairn Rescue (for CTCA) and I can assure you that 99% of the dogs that come into the Rescue Program are from either puppy mills or "backyard breeders." This fact speaks for itself.

Again, your dog sounds like a wonderful, loving pet. Neuter him, it is the right thing to do.

My best,

Ladybroc

[wheezie23]

:::::standing ovation to LadyBroc::::::

Well said!

Thela

[hallswel]

Tobysmom,

You have gotten loads of wonderful advice. When I first purchased my Rebel I got him as a pet from a great breeder. After I got him I wondered about breeding him because he is so wonderful but the contract I signed was to have him neutered. After I had him for a year I decided that I would sometime in my life breed cairns but first I needed to try and learn as much as I could about the breed. I could have paid more, shown him and gotten the contract changed but now I am glad he is my pet, I have learned so much because of him!

I went to local dog shows and watched the ones who won and looked closely at them, I took pictures and when I got home looked at them to see if I could see visual what I liked best in the breed and what I would want my puppies to look like, temperment and general health things like teeth and coat. I did that for a year and joined the local terrier club to learn about all of the other things I could do with Rebel since he was my pet and I could not show him. There is agility, earthdog, obedience and just trying those things with your dog is FUN.

I had had Rebel for 2 1/2 years and decided that eventually I would indeed try to show and maybe later breed but first I had to find the foundation for my future. I did some research and looked and got very confused then I hooked up with the cairn breeder that I got Rebel from.....she showed me how to read a pedigree even better and really has been a great mentor. Through her I was able to get a with the beautifull little female I have now that I will begin showing soon. I had several local breeders look at her and I have learned every one of her faults and each breeder sees something different that they like or dislike but she is a quality bitch and it has taken me three years just to get this far and I haven't even shown her or decided if I will breed her. Breeding her is a awesome responsibililty, I will want only the perfect stud for her and then could I sell the puppies... or would I want to keep them gee... so many things to consider.

Go to some shows and watch the other cairns, learn as much about the breed as you can then when you decide you want to breed cairns. Get a mentor. Very carefully select the line you wish to begin with. Let the mentor help you and then you will be on your way. PS don't get your feelings hurt if someone tells you they won't sell you a dog to breed.

Good luck, there is a show in Montana the end of June might be a great place to start, it is in Missoula, we have some good friends there and thought about making the trip in conjunction with a show.

[TheScotts]

Hurray for Ladybroc's great advice! And good on your for asking about breeding instead of just doing it! Yes, neuter your darling and enjoy him and enjoy knowing THIS: you won't be contributing to the carnage of the dog pounds! I cruised several animal shelters looking for a dog before I purchased my Cairn puppies from a responsible breeder(who required I spay/neuter). It broke my heart how many purebred dogs were there, NOT getting adopted and eventually being euthanized. Purebreds of every description, including many types of terriers. Which were probably bred by people with good hearts like you who never ever visualized their pups winding up like that. But they do. Well-meaning people love their doggies and breed litters and advertise them in the paper and whoever comes along buys them and swears they will have a good home....and look how often that goes haywire....they buy a breed not suitable to their lifestyle or their apartment or their small childred or the spouse hates the dog or whatever. Shucks, when I had my little Westie, friends thought she was too cute and got a pup "just like her". Well, after not training the poor thing and leaving him to run around their apartment (no yard) and naturally he DESTROYED their house, well, luckliy I was around to adopt the thing and re-train him.

Its an old story. Just go to the pound and see why dogs have been given up there.

[tobysmom]

Thank you all so much for your information on breeding. Our little man got neutered last week and is doing very well. We thought alot about the breeding and it isn't something that we feel we want to take on. I would only want perfect little Cairn's from him and although I think he's perfect , not knowing enough about his pedigree poses a problem. Like I said before, we bought him as a pet and am glad we decided to keep him just that! Thanks again...

[Guest posting as: Ladybroc]

TobysMom,

You and your family are to be commended for having your little fella neutered and for the conclusions you reached about breeding him. My hat's off to you; I wish more pet owners would follow your example.

Respectfully,

[tena]

Yea for you guys. And a wonderful thread to follow.

[kcsdogs]

I agree with Bradl 100%. Breeding should be left to those who are doing it to better the breed, not to provide puppies exclusively to pet homes. There are too many things you would have no control over once the puppies are sold. Dogs purchased from a pet shop are never from really good breeders, by good I mean breeders who are breeding for health, temperment and quality conformation therefore in my opinion should never be bred. I think your dog will be a wonderful pet, but I think breeding is not the best thing here. :)Thank you for neutering your boy you have done a great service to our breed!

And a Hearty AMEN to ladybroc for her advice!!