Cairn siblings fighting

[francis.and.floyd]

My husband and I got two cairns from a breeder in Utah - they are both boys and we love them so much. However, despite their super social attitudes to us, other humans and other dogs - they have been aggressively fighting each other from time to time. They do play very well together, give each other kisses and seem to love each other - but they get into these face-offs where they aggressively attack each other. It can be scary. One of them, Floyd, even scabbed up from the bite during the attack. It seems to be they are resource guarding us. They don't seem to act this way around food or toys - moreso when one of the dogs is around us or in the room with us and the other dog gets closer is when one of them attacks the other. We cannot have them in the same room for too long without it happening.

We hired an animal behaviorist that will start working with an animal behaviorist in 3 weeks (her soonest availability). We have tried puppy training classes but dropped out as the training lady was very aggressive (throwing chains at the dogs and yanking their necks incredibly hard, etc.) and it wasn't our style so we are hoping the animal behaviorist will be better. 

I'm mostly wondering if anyone else has dealt with this? Their names are Francis and Floyd, born 2/25/23 and are around 5 months old (not neutered yet). They sleep in separate kennels and get plenty of alone time. I even check them into daycare on separate days and the doggy daycare folks say they are incredible with humans and other dogs. I just wish we didn't have to be so on guard in our own home with them!

[Sam I Am]

If you look at younger pups in the same litter, they attack each other relentlessly. As yours are only 5 months old I am pretty sure they will sort it out. Also you need to be the”mum” just like  their mother and let them know they need to break it up . Be the boss. Unless they really hurt each other I would not get overly worried…they will figure it out and perhaps neutering soon will  end some of the aggression.

And as far as that “trainer” goes I think I would have thrown the chains at her ….
 

[francis.and.floyd]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:07 PM, Sam I Am said:

If you look at younger pups in the same litter, they attack each other relentlessly. As yours are only 5 months old I am pretty sure they will sort it out. Also you need to be the”mum” just like  their mother and let them know they need to break it up . Be the boss. Unless they really hurt each other I would not get overly worried…they will figure it out and perhaps neutering soon will  end some of the aggression.

And as far as that “trainer” goes I think I would have thrown the chains at her ….
 

Thank you!! This is making me feel a bit better and I laughed at your comment about throwing the chains back at her haha. Yeah my husband and I left that training class feeling not right at all about the situation so I'm glad we hired an Animal Behaviorist who stated she does not support that type of training.

We are really hoping the fights stop - we have had to keep them in separate rooms when in the house and it is just a huge hassle, but are trying to do anything we can to snap them out of this behavior. Fingers and toes crossed!

[bradl]

Hi and welcome!

Often (not always, obviously) when boys scrap it *tends* to be more sound and fury than actual damage. However you have experienced differently, they are terriers, and young, and siblings, and intact, and you are right to want to get on top of this for the long haul and sooner rather than later. Good for you!

Obedience training would definitely help, and give you tools to lead the dogs toward behavior you value. For some reason, dogs sometimes seem to do better with "do this instead" vs "stop doing that thing you enjoy but I don't."

Regarding the chain... without knowing a lot more (not asking for details, just making the limitations of my from-afar opinion clear) I don't *necessarily* think throwing chains is bad in itself. As I have seen it the chain is not thrown *at* the dog but rather at ones own feet or *near* the dog with the purpose being to startle the dog away from an unwanted behavior in order to cause it to look up and take a new cue from you. Any noisemaker could serve. Chains are often used because folks training obedience typically own several slip collars so they are convenient and available. (And quieter to carry in a pocket than an altoid tin with pennies inside). Folks who train with slip collars know that the dogs very often cue off the sound of the links sliding without *any* pressure whatsoever; tossing a chain has the benefit of being a sound consistent with a previously conditioned request for attention. 

All that said, I'm 100% for as much training as you can give your dogs and in any manner *that works for you* — on all levels. If you find methods that are comfortable for you and effective, you will do a lot more with your dogs and that is good for them and you.  

Good luck, have fun with your boys. Cairns can be raucous as pups but I've found no finer companions.