What's in it for me?

[Hillscreek]

I learned a lot by chance about Angus's thinking and how to work with him from a game we played.  He loved to chase anything so I thought I'd teach him to retrieve for fun.

I tossed a tennis ball. Said 'Get it'. He chased it and ran about with it. I called him - he laughed as a cairn does. Come and get it he seemed to say. This happened multiple times. I never picked it up. One day the ball rolled toward me. I got very excited praising him. Gradually he realised I would throw it again if it came to me. One day he picked it up and brought to me dropping it at my feet. I threw it for him. He brought it back. We were happy. Then, 'put it in my hand Angus' - Give. After a bit he did. Eventually and amazingly he started throwing it back!! Hewould twist his jaw back and hurl it at me quite accurately. Saved him bothering to have to return it by walking/running.

I learned from this casual game how his mind worked. How intelligent he was. How he could modify his behavior to get what we both wanted and even how to improve the game to his benefit!

This helped with lots of training. For example Go potty praise will follow. Sit and stay your meal will arrive. Stand quietly to have your collar/leash/harness put on and we'll go for a walk. Wait in your crate and I'll be back etc etc . I learned to start small, to be patient, to say yes rather than no whenever I could. To have a sense of humor.

Best Buddy Angus is now 10 and a 1/2. Worth every moment of those challenging youngster days!
 

 

 

 

[Catalyzt]

What a great post, HC.  Spike is probably about four years old-- time flies, I can't believe it-- so it's still early in the game for us, but this is not only useful information about Cairn maturity, and how they learn, but it's also a great reminder for those of us who are going through tough moments being guardians for these animals that are like stuffed animals one moment, then honey badgers-- or baby velociraptors-- a split second later.

Spike does occasionally throw 'fetch' toys back at me, and I praise him for that, though I can't get him to repeat behaviors.  He also will throw a stuffed animal to me sometimes-- or right at me, once or twice directly in my face-- or toss it way up in the air and catch it again.

The 'yes' part is fun, but sometimes Spike won't continue the behavior.  At walk time, sometimes he'd roll over on his back and stick all four paws in the air.  I would then say, "Play dead, Spike.  Play dead."  Then I'd kind of crouch on the floor next to him and get real quiet, then give him a big "Okay!" and spring to my feet, and he would do the same... and then he'll stand still so I can put the harness on... and even lift one of his front legs to make it easier for me.

He's kept up lifting the front leg for me, but seems to have outgrown "Play dead."  I'll keep trying!

The other fun thing is mirroring.  Spike does a big 'downward-facing-dog' yoga stretch after a nap, and I always mirror that with a big standing stretch of my own, reaching for the ceiling.  What's cool is, Spike understands the concept of stretching, not just the specific movement.  If we go into the backyard, and I reach for the sky, he will promptly go into his 'Downward-facing dog' stretch, looking me straight in the eye when he does it.

I also do have a yoga mat, and on days when I'm so stiff that I substitute some vigorous stretching for a workout, he often will stretch right next to me.  The last time I put down the yoga mat, he promptly jumped onto it and did a big stretch.  Took a minute or so, but I got him to continue his stretches on the floor beside me.  Now that I think of it, I probably need a little doggie yoga mat for him!  I'm sure he'd use it!

[pkcrossley]

My cairn Redmon was whip smart, but seemed immune to operant conditioning --i think terriers generally don't quite do the kind of  training that gets breeds rated high in the so-called "intelligence" tables. he learned everything instantly, but was never "conditioned" to respond to anything. he loved to play fetch, and would throw toys at me when he felt like fetching, but doing tricks on "command" simply wasn't a thing. he was indeed always thinking "why should i, exactly?" he would respond to suggestions in the spirit of comradery, or just because it seemed like fun, or to impress somebody if he wanted to. but he didn't seem to believe that Pavlov had every existed. 

[Catalyzt]

PK, that was so spot-on that I actually cut-and-pasted your message in an email to my buddy Bill, who is our test subject for socializing Spike to non-neighbors.  (Bill had asked me why I just didn't use a squirt bottle full of water to correct Spike.) 

I like the bit about camaraderie... if you're working on a project together, it's like the hunt, and some kind of pack cooperation kicks in.  

It's still a rough go.  When Bill comes over to play music, we start with the short, early night walk, and Spike will bark a lot-- sometimes wildly, staring at Bill like he's never seen him before.  But on the walk back, he's quiet most of the way.  Going either way, he'll take cookies from Bill.  (BTW, any ideas to speed up the process are greatly appreciated!  Bill is holding up well, but his patience is not limitless.)

Behavioral psychology, to me, is the hammer in the psychological toolkit:  You have to have it, it does work occasionally, but working with humans, most jobs don't call for it, and it can really hurt you or someone else if misused.  (Think "Clockwork Orange.")   It generally works better for animals, but even there, it's overrated and oversold.  It doesn't surprise me that it doesn't work that well for Cairns, and speaks to their good character.  Skinner, at least, had noble aspirations, and correctly deduced that positive reinforcement works a whole lot better than negative reinforcement.  Watson went into advertising, which did a lot to contribute to human suffering, IMHO.

I was not a very good undergraduate student in psychology.  I remember the TA coming into our lab and remarking that our rat seemed very plump and healthy, unlike our classmates' rats, who had been starved so they would press the bar.  He also requested that I remove the rat from my shoulder, where he was happily playing with my hair and snuffling in my ear, and put it back in the rat box.  I insisted that our data was good, and we hadn't falsified our results.

I lied.  I considered the experiment ridiculous-- we had a pretty good idea what the rat would do if we starved him, so why did the class have to starve 50 of them?  I just couldn't do it, it was too existentially pointless.  I got a 43 on the midterm, but my labs and other exams were okay, and my advisor figured out that I could pass the class if I got an 84 or better on the final.  I think I got an 86-- it was really close-- but I got my science requirement out of the way and switched to a Theater and English major.  

I left psychology, started playing punk rock and writing, and didn't return to the field until my early 50s.  It was a good thing for my grad school application that I did not fail or drop that class, I think.

 

[pkcrossley]

good for you! though, Spike's problem with starving the rats would be a very different one. i found the best way to get through to my cairn was just to talk to him. listening, companionable listening, is one of these dogs' superpowers. but they have to get in the mood. my  cairn had a very bad habit of going berserk in the middle of the night if a deer (or maybe a little bear) walked around the house. i had to get up, and walk to each window. he couldn't see out the window himself, so i would report that nothing was there. we had to do the whole round, then he was satisfied. by the second or third window, he was looking at me all attention, waiting for the report. then, report noted. good enough then. back to sleep. they don;t want to be trained, but they are very verbal and respond if you can convince them you are worth it. they are bred to make their own decisions, hunt on their own if necessary, fight for their own lives if necessary. however, they do want to train you. i tried treat training for about 90 seconds. the only one who got trained was me. 

[Catalyzt]

Great information-- I actually do the same thing, just not consistently.  When I put the dogs to bed in their crate-- my office-- I might lie down and doze on the couch for a few minutes myself while my wife knits downstairs or reads.  And yes, Spike sometimes will bark wildly, and I do get up and check the windows sometimes, though only when he goes really crazy.  And he does look at me afterwards, and he will stop if I tell him it's okay.

What's best is if I actually go outside and check the yard (without him) which I will do for a serious alert.  Our first terrier, Freddie, went nuts one morning at 6:00 AM, and when my wife looked out the window, our neighbor had fallen down the stairs, fractured both legs, and couldn't get up!  We ran over and rang the doorbell frantically until her husband came out-- he (and their dogs) had slept through the whole thing.  Freddie got all the credit, and our neighbors always made a big fuss over him for the rest of his life.