Extreme Cairn anxiety

[hheldorfer]

Hello all.  I've been absent from the forum for a while due to all sorts of craziness (and I apologize for that), but now I desperately need your help.

Many of you already know about Nattie, the Cairn we adopted after Buffy passed.  Nattie was a breeding bitch (from a reputable breeder, not a puppy mill) and seemed to be a good fit with Ziggy, our Shih Tzu/Terrier mix.  She allowed little Ziggy to be the alpha; she followed his lead and always seemed more comfortable when he was around.  Ziggy passed away in February and now Nattie is an only dog.

Nattie lived with a pack of 8-12 Cairns for 8 years and was not an alpha.  Her breeder was honest and warned us that Nattie could become overwhelmed in unfamiliar situations.  There were a few instances where she became very anxious/overwhelmed but it eventually passed.  Now that Ziggy is no longer around, Nattie has become extremely anxious and unsure of herself.  She is petrified by fireworks, thunderstorms, loud cars, the garbage truck, etc..  The problem is getting worse because people are setting off fireworks at all hours of the day and night.  She'll go for her daily trip to the forest preserve with DH but fights like mad when I try to walk her first thing in the morning or after dinner in the evening - whether or not there are fireworks going off.  She refuses to take her nightly trip outside for one last pee (but thankfully has not had an accident in the house for several months).  I've tried treats, praise, constant encouragement . . . everything.  I don't think this is typical Cairn stubbornness.  It seems as if she is genuinely fearful.

She seems depressed and anxious all the time now and we're at our wits end.  I proposed the idea of talking to the vet about anti-anxiety meds but DH is against it.  We both think she'd benefit from having a male dog around, but the dog would have to be a perfect fit - self-confident but not aggressive, tolerant, small (under 25 lbs.), and an adult but not a senior - nothing against senior dogs, but we certainly don't want to find her a best buddy and then lose him a year or two later.  And, of course, she'd have to like him.  This seems like a good solution except we can't be sure it will solve Nattie's issues.  If it doesn't help, we'd then be trying to deal with Nattie's problems *and* training a new dog.

Other than Ziggy's passing, our lives have not changed significantly.  I still work full-time; DH is retired.  The past few months have been super-stressful, both because of the pandemic and because of increased pressures with my work, however our schedules have remained constant.

I'm open to any suggestions you wonderful folks may have.  Thank you!

 

 

 

[sanford]

You don’t say why DH won’t allow anti anxiety meds for this extremely miserable, unhappy dog. Without any explanation, one can only surmise that his harshness in withholding needed medication is abusive. Can you explain or condone DH’s actions?

Edited June 22, 2020 by sanford

[Sam I Am]

Given that Natty was comforted with another dog in the house, if it was me I would definitely get another dog . How about if you take her to an animal shelter and see if there is another smallish dog that she plays with or seems to be comfortable with. I understand the reluctance to medicate as I would have issues around that also however again me being me I would search out a clinic that practices integrated Veterinary care before going to the more “serious” drugs that often have side effects. Case in point with our Scottie, Rosie. Every time we took her away from home on holidays, we were faced with a dog that was totally stressed out, to the point of within days of being away from home, she would land up having bloody colitis. Our clinic carried a product called Adaptil, a pheromone spray. We sprayed her bed, put a scarf sprayed with the stuff around her neck...and we had a calm dog with no more issues. I am not saying it will work with Nattie, but why not try a different approach and see if it works. When we had our first Scottie Sandie, she came from a show home filled with other dogs. We got her at 6 months of age and when left alone when we still were working would be very destructive even at 5yrs of age! We would come home to furniture torn and other destructive behaviour. We then got Jock our Cairn, and all of a sudden no more issues with anxiety. It was like night and day. She had a furry buddy just like she was used to as a pup.

[Hillscreek]

My first thought would be find her a buddy. Not necessarily a cairn just a small dog she could get along with. As suggested look at animal shelter or any other place that might be looking to find a home for a small dog.  Meds are the last resort for me but if needed agree with Sam I Am maybe try a different approach.

Let us know how things go along for Nattie poor little girl.

 

[hheldorfer]

16 hours ago, sanford said:

You don’t say why DH won’t allow anti anxiety meds for this extremely miserable, unhappy dog. Without any explanation, one can only surmise that his harshness in withholding needed medication is abusive. Can you explain or condone DH’s actions?

It's not that he won't "allow" them.  I believe he doesn't like the idea of starting a medication regimen that will be necessary until the end of Nattie's days, plus possible side effects.   I didn't mean to make him sound harsh in my post.

Nattie had a complete physical a few months ago and the vet found no issues, but the anxiety wasn't yet in full bloom at that time.

 

 

[bradl]

I get where DH is coming from and share somewhat of that perspective at least as I understand it as applied to behavioral concerns. With meds I sometimes worry that instead of a calmed dog I might end up with a still-frightened dog who was freaked worse because they are zonked on top of it. But avoiding meds assumes there is a way to modify the underlying behavioral worries of the dog. Easier said than done, sometimes. Trial and error may be the only way forward.

She probably needs to build confidence somehow and that's often a long-term project. I agree under the circumstances another dog might help or allow her to 'delegate' worrying about everything to the other dog. It seems most placements allow for a weekend or couple day trial period to see how everybody gets along, if a suitable dog can be found. 

Hang in there, good luck, and do your business Nattie!

[hheldorfer]

1 hour ago, bradl said:

I get where DH is coming from and share somewhat of that perspective at least as I understand it as applied to behavioral concerns. With meds I sometimes worry that instead of a calmed dog I might end up with a still-frightened dog who was freaked worse because they are zonked on top of it. But avoiding meds assumes there is a way to modify the underlying behavioral worries of the dog. Easier said than done, sometimes. Trial and error may be the only way forward.

She probably needs to build confidence somehow and that's often a long-term project. I agree under the circumstances another dog might help or allow her to 'delegate' worrying about everything to the other dog. It seems most placements allow for a weekend or couple day trial period to see how everybody gets along, if a suitable dog can be found. 

Hang in there, good luck, and do your business Nattie!

You are spot on, Brad.  We tried anti-anxiety meds/tranquilizers with Buffy because she, too, hated fireworks and thunderstorms.  The meds only made it worse; it was as if she had even more anxiety because she wanted to "fight" the noise but was too sedated to do anything.

We've been checking Petfinder and local shelter listings, trying to find possible candidates for our open dog position.  It's been rather frustrating.  Seems like every time we find a dog that looks like he'd be a good fit, the dog is snatched up by the next day.  Unfortunately I can't take any days off work right now so a weekday dog safari isn't a possibility.

 

[Sam I Am]

HH have you checked with some of the local veterinarian clinics? They might have some leads or know of people that are giving up their dogs.

[Hillscreek]

Keep looking hh. A friend for Nattie is out there somewhere. I wonder if she would get on with a big(er) dog if you have the space for one and can't find a small dog. I had small dogs get along fine with bigger dogs. You just never know.

 

[bradl]

34 minutes ago, Hillscreek said:

I had small dogs get along fine with bigger dogs. You just never know.

True that! It's possible Nattie might feel protected by a larger dog.

One summer, in two different states, I met two couples who had a Cairn and a Bouvier (it just struck me as a curious/unusual combination).  I have two friends who have a GSD + Cairns and another had a Malinois  + Cairns. We placed Rosebud (aka Budzilla) as an adult successfully in a home with both cats AND an Irish Wolfhound. I do not believe the Wolfhound was particularly high-energy, though   

And of course I have to trot out this oldie but goodie, little Munch the Cairn pup with his housemate, Fin, an enormous Leonberger.

Obviously each dog is an individual, but just a thought that sometimes things fit together in surprising ways. 

[hheldorfer]

Thanks for the encouragement.  Over the weekend I began giving Nattie melatonin in the evening and it seems to help calm her down when the fireworks (or thunderstorms - it's always one or the other) start.  It's probably helping her sleep better, too.

We wouldn't mind having a larger dog; in fact, Nattie *loves* the big boys at the dog park.  The problem is the size of our house/yard and the fact that a rambunctious larger dog would be harder for DH and me to handle on walks.

 

[Kathryn]

Helene - if you are interested in a larger dog, it seems many of them are less rambunctious than our cairns, and actually seem to spend a lot of time just lolliing around, or interested in more general walks, sniffs, etc.  (Unless of course you consider a greyhound)  My cairns have always gotten along with my cousin's dogs - she has a little farmstead and has had german shepherds, a golden retriever, a doberman, and a huge Bernese mountain dog. The Bernese was very low key; I would place the others midway on the spectrum of activity (cairns of course are over the top).  And of course they seem so much more "trainable" - they come when called for instance! Or perhaps a poodle mix of some sort -- they always seem agreeable by nature and a little more spunky.

We face the same problems here with Oban, and this time of year is always a challenge.  Steve slept in the basement again (the TV man cave) last night with the television on at Oban's request -- there were fireworks all over, and they seem so much worse this year after all the riots in Minneapolis earlier this month.  And then of course we live in the Midwest where regular thunderstorms are a part of summer life. Oban gets really anxious, and wakes us up with scratches and whines to get downstairs where the dark and quiet seem to comfort him a little.  It's rough on us, as we never sleep well there (so none of us sleep well...). We do have some medication from the vet which we will use on the Fourth of July, and perhaps a day or two each side of it -- but we don't want to medicate Oban continuously, and we would have to.  Right now the basement is our only solution. We tried pheronomes and thundershirts - no luck.

Angus has showed no fear at fireworks or thunderstorms, but he does try to "bark" them away. So we live with one dog whining, and one dog barking.

I understand your frustration and concerns, and wish we all had some answers.

 

[Hillscreek]

7 minutes ago, Kathryn said:

 

Angus has showed no fear at fireworks or thunderstorms, but he does try to "bark" them away.

 

My Angus barked at storms get them to go away. And of course they always did. When things calmed down a bit he would turn and look at me all happy and proud!!

[Sam I Am]

One thing I have mentioned in the past when Jock was still alive. Fireworks and thunder sent Jock on a barking frenzy, racing up and down the stairs ...totally out of control. Until, this happened. I read an article of a person who was beyond hope to keep her dog from going crazy in storms. She had a special leash and collar that she only used in storms which she used and never let go of that leash while the disturbance was still loudly making its  presence . As I had tried everything with Jock I decided to try this. The first few times he still panicked, but when he figured out that he was totally safe attached to me, all the crazy stuff stopped! Even during the night when thunder struck, I would attach the special collar and leash, wrap it around my arm while lying in bed and Jock immediately would lie down and fall asleep while the roof was shaking with the thunder booms. In my mind I think Jock equated me as being a safe place and that as long as he was attached to me no harm would come to him. It’s the only answer I can come up with. I wonder if this would help Nattie?

I am grateful that Sam and Rosie seem to sleep through anything....a bit like their mum.

[bradl]

This is an intriguing idea. I hope I never have to try it, but if I do, I hope I remember to!