Cairn Coat Colors

[Toto-lee Cairn]

Before asking a question, I try searching . . . so that said, here goes. . .

My Cairn, Toto, now almost 23 weeks old was ID'd as a 'wheaten brindle.'  Will he keep the dark hair I see, or will he eventually become more 'blonde?' Or if as I read, will his coat color change multiple times over the course of his life?

I see some wheaten, but more of what I might call 'red,' and I get tickled because he has an almost white spot dead center of his head -- not really white, but a light silver.  It makes me laugh because the silver in his coat -- on the top of his head, and down his chest, makes me think he is copying me.  I started out in my 40s with a Cruella DeVille streak, myself.

My first Cairn was a black brindle, and he always just looked black until he had to get a short haircut, and then you could really see all of the brindle -- looked almost like a tiger.

Just curious.  He has a wide range of colors visible in his coat now, and he looks like such an imp!  If I knew how to use my *smart* phone, I could take a photo to share.  His Dad was wheaten, and his mother was dark, maybe a dark brindle.

[montdoug]

When talking of color with the breeder of the 1st Cairn we go she took a line from Forest Gump and monkeyed with it a bit, "Cairns are like a box of Chocolates, ya never know what you're gonna get".

That said, Gus was a Dark Brindle the day we got him at 8 weeks and aside from a lot of silver around his face and such at 12 years old he's still the same color today.

This spring we got Taggart, the breeder said he's a dark red brindle, he's our 3rd Cairn so I know very little. Here he is at 8 weeks.

, is that Dark red brindle?

When I saw you post I took a few pics of him now at 24 weeks.

A little lighter maybe but I just stripped a considerable amount of of black hair off of him so other then that he looks pretty much the same to me. Can any of the more knowledgeable look into their Cairn-Crystal Ball and tell me what they see him coming to be? Don't care in the least but Nancy hopes his face stays dark.  Sounds like our pups might be somewhat similar of color. Also sounds we are both Cairn-smitten by em.

Edited October 27, 2018 by montdoug

[Toto-lee Cairn]

Well, I'll be!  Yours and mine could be brothers -- and yes!, to answer your question, the two of them do have much the same color(s) and markings.  Mine was called 'wheaten brindle' and was largely dark as a little thing, too.  I would say he has a lot of red in his coloring, which I like, and his face his dark, too.  The funniest color is that on the top of his head -- such a light silver until it looks almost white.  His chest is lighter, with a smudge of what looks like 'charcoal.'  I love his impish look, and that face -- Toto could get anything out of me he wants, and I think the stinker knows it.

I, too, am hoping his face and muzzle keep the dark as I like the contrast.

At 24 weeks, your little one looks nicely-groomed.  How did you manage that?  I can't get Toto to be still long enough to get much done.  I did trim his front two paws, and trimmed the 'feathers' from the back of the legs (following directions and pictures from the Cairn Terrier Club's booklet I got years ago with the first 'Toto' I adopted).  I have trimmed his nails, twice, and the last time was such a fiasco, until I paid the vet tech to do it the next time.  I am going to try again probably tomorrow as they need it, but I am dreading it.  I need to trim his ears, to get that 'sharp' look to them, and his eyebrows! And of course, neaten-up the back paws and legs. I love brushing him, and do it almost daily.  I also have a tool that strips, sort of, the old hair, but he is still carrying much of his puppy coat.

I am determined to keep him looking like a Cairn -- I had such horrible times with groomers.  My first always came home looking bizarre.

Cairn-smitten?  Most definitely!  I have been since I was a child, and saw The Wizard of Oz, and that little dog of Dorothy's -- I never knew it was actually a Cairn until maybe 15 years ago.

[Idaho Cairns]

Based on my limited experience, I would project that your little Gus is going to be a wheaten with a bit of a dark mask. 

[Sam I Am]

When we got our previous Cairn Jock at 12 weeks of age he was a red brindle . By the age of about 5 yrs old people were asking us if we had gotten another Cairn. He lost the red wheaten colour and by the time he was around 8 he was a totally different colour. Blackish grey.  So my guess is..anything goes with a brindle coat. At least that’s my limited experience . Here is an interesting article .http://www.lachleen.dk/uk/Farver.htm

Edited October 28, 2018 by Terrier lover

[bradl]

We have a friend who refers to brindles as "pre-black" as so many get so dark as the years go by. In the limited breeding we did we stopped registering them as red or cream brindles and started choosing plain brindle. That way one didn't have to explain why the papers for the black dog in front of you claimed it was red. 

Often the color shift seems to start at the mask (often the feet too) and spread over the body from there. With a black head and a lighter body, in the dusk light it sometimes looked like we had a headless dog coming in from the yard  

[montdoug]

16 hours ago, Toto-lee Cairn said:

Well, I'll be!  Yours and mine could be brothers -- and yes!, to answer your question, the two of them do have much the same color(s) and markings.  Mine was called 'wheaten brindle' and was largely dark as a little thing, too.  I would say he has a lot of red in his coloring, which I like, and his face his dark, too.  The funniest color is that on the top of his head -- such a light silver until it looks almost white.  His chest is lighter, with a smudge of what looks like 'charcoal.'  I love his impish look, and that face -- Toto could get anything out of me he wants, and I think the stinker knows it.

I, too, am hoping his face and muzzle keep the dark as I like the contrast.

 

""At 24 weeks, your little one looks nicely-groomed.  How did you manage that?  I can't get Toto to be still long enough to get much done.  I did trim his front two paws, and trimmed the 'feathers' from the back of the legs (following directions and pictures from the Cairn Terrier Club's booklet I got years ago with the first 'Toto' I adopted).  I have trimmed his nails, twice, and the last time was such a fiasco, until I paid the vet tech to do it the next time.  I am going to try again probably tomorrow as they need it, but I am dreading it.  I need to trim his ears, to get that 'sharp' look to them, and his eyebrows! And of course, neaten-up the back paws and legs. I love brushing him, and do it almost daily.  I also have a tool that strips, sort of, the old hair, but he is still carrying much of his puppy coat.""

Having had numerous Airedales over time, including now, I am a big believer in stripping double coated terriers. I start when they are very young sitting on my lap playing and I casually start plucking hairs to get them use to it. Then I eventually graduate to one of these.

Short stints at first with lots of treats and a constant running dialog of conversation with your buddy telling him/her how great they are. Eventually they get use to it, remember their tail is a great handle to pick them up and center them back on the table. Biggest issue is they usually don't like their bottoms plucked but it has to be done for sanitary reasons. Just short periods and if you start to get frustrated it's time for a break, keep it cheerful with the frequent snack now and again. That's how I do it but I'm sure there are a lotta different ways around the barn.

Lotta stuff in the archives on grooming I'll bet, what little I know I picked up from years  stripping many many acres of Airedales (imagine  60lb Cairns).

Finally and not to make you jealous but we have a breeder friend who comes to Montana regularly who is a true professional and beyond helpful,  also I found a "top" groomer who hand strips over in Billings 145 miles from here ("BIG SCORE"!), expensive but as I get older the dogs have somewhat replaced our kids that have left the nest and getting our terriers groomed properly is well worth the price of admission! I just love that bristly feel of a properly stripped Terrier. On top of that feel it makes for a dog that's more impervious to weather and more water proof.

To much outta me

 

16 hours ago, Toto-lee Cairn said:

I am determined to keep him looking like a Cairn -- I had such horrible times with groomers.  My first always came home looking bizarre.

Cairn-smitten?  Most definitely!  I have been since I was a child, and saw The Wizard of Oz, and that little dog of Dorothy's -- I never knew it was actually a Cairn until maybe 15 years ago.

 

[Toto-lee Cairn]

2 hours ago, montdoug said:

I just love that bristly feel of a properly stripped Terrier. On top of that feel it makes for a dog that's more impervious to weather and more water proof.

To much outta me 

 

 

 

[Toto-lee Cairn]

 

Me, too.  I like his coat, even now, but I know it already needs attention, and to hear you talk, I should've started when he was younger.  I did not get the little fellow until he was 13 weeks, so I missed-out on a number of things, I know.

He lets me brush him daily, and I check-out his ears and paws, and his armpits -- where Cairns tend to mat.  I have several tools to cut, and de-shed, and he does well when I am able to keep him still long enough to use them.  He especially seems to like the scratch of the double-sided brush -- has a rake, of sorts.  I notice his coat looks great, just from the brushing.  His little behind needs a trim, I know.  I laugh as he goes down stairs, and I get a good look at that cute little behind -- looks like a sideways-styled ducktail.

There is no one here who hand strips, to teach me.  I understand the principle, but sure would appreciate a hands-on lesson or two.  I asked a groomer here about it, and even though he knows how to strip, I couldn't even pay him for his time to get just a few pointers.  So aggravating.  They want to clip, and I was never happy with the way my first Cairn looked -- either like a Westie or a Scottie, of which my dog was neither.  And of course, once clipped, you can never seem to get that 'Cairn look' about them again.  They assume I want to 'show' him, but I don't -- I just want him to look like a Cairn.

I will probably order a grooming table for myself, even if I have to set it up in the garage.  Does the noose keep its head still for you to trim ears and eyebrows?

The nail-clipping went well this a.m., but it did take the two of us -- me, holding the little guy, and my husband doing the clipping.  Toto was actually easier than the Weimaraner, who is such a big baby, and I had to feed carrot slices almost constantly to keep him distracted.  I could get all of one paw trimmed on Toto before he would demand a treat in return.

Thanks for the tips -- NOT too much outta ya at all. I just wanna get around the barn, once.

Oh, and I love Airedales, too.  My Mother grew up with them, and she adored them.  We had two neighbors with Airedales, and while I entertained having one, I know from experience my husband's dog is too much, physically, for me, so I could imagine 60 lbs. of terrier to have to manage. I got to see an Irish terrier recently, in a pet store, while its Momma shopped, and that terrier was quite attractive, too.  Love the red in their coats.

[sanford]

The noose keeps the head still - sort of. If the pooch really wants to resist, all bets are off. I noticed double grooming loops online - and arms with 2 fastening points for separate loops - one in front goes around the neck and one in back goes around the body, between the ribs and the rear legs. (I needed this for my cairns who managed to cha cha cha on the table, even with 2 loops! My theory is that every little bit helps.

P.S. It might help to bring pix of appropriately groomed cairns to the groomer, while explaining: " No Westie skirt" "No Schnauzer eyebrows!" (Many groomers haven't even seen a cairn terrier, although they might not admit it).

Edited October 28, 2018 by sanford

[Sam I Am]

I have resorted to doing Sams coat while sitting on the floor with him...I am Terrified  he will leap off the table and hang himself.  I am sure he Is gutsy enough to take the leap off the table. Yikes!

[bradl]

3 hours ago, Toto-lee Cairn said:

There is no one here who hand strips, to teach me.

If you live near Indian Trail/Monroe msg me. I know someone with extensive Cairn and Scottie grooming experience. 

[bradl]

2 hours ago, sanford said:

P.S. It might help to bring pix of appropriately groomed cairns to the groomer, while explaining: " No Westie skirt" "No Schnauzer eyebrows!" (Many groomers haven't even seen a cairn terrier, although they might not admit it).

[Toto-lee Cairn]

Thank you all for your most helpful suggestions.

I do get on the floor with my Toto, quite a bit, and that includes to groom him.  He will keep himself busy with a favorite chew toy, too, when I place him on the ottoman in front of me, and brush him, address a small mat he might get in the leg/paw area, and he'll let me flip him over to brush the belly and undersides of the legs.  I have been consistently handling him, everywhere, since I got Toto at 13 weeks.  I have worked hard to let him know he can trust me not to hurt him, which I think is key.

Once the Dog Shrink showed me some 'exercises' to de-code him from the biting, it has been going very well.

I got tickled when my husband thumped him on the head during the nail clipping (he was fighting him, not wanting his nails trimmed -- snarling, baring his teeth).  George is always driving home the point that he is 'alpha' around here.  Not quite sure where, exactly, I fit in -- I'm thinking 'slave,' maybe Chief Cook and Bottle-Washer.

 

[Kathryn]

Oban as a puppy (about a year old) and Oban last winter (just under 5). Note the difference in his coloring.  His breeder called him a cream brindle. I suspect he will turn black (love that phrase "pre-black," Brad).

Our last brindle cairn, Allie, started out as red as a fox, and ended up at 16+ years as a black dog with silver highlights.  

[Toto-lee Cairn]

Oban is absolutely adorable.  My first Cairn was even darker, but also brindle.

I don't really care what color my little guy turns out -- except, if it's white, I'll be talking to the breeder, and I guess Toto's Dad would be following-up with a paternity suit. (I seem to recall reading that in the Cairn's history, the white ones became, ultimately, the White West Highland Terrier? There was even speculation they were euthanized, considered 'undesirable?')

Maybe when my daughter is home for the holidays, she can show me how to use some of the features on my *smart* phone, like the camera.  Note: *smart* phone, inept operator. Then I could share a photo of my 'Toto.'

[sanford]

Take heart, Toto-Lee-Cairn... I've been able to master many of the phone's features, (but not all)...And if I can, anyone can! Also, after you take a pic, there is a "test", or practice area on this site for you to use when learning to attach or include the photo with your post.

Besides, having a cairn terrier around will be motivation enough to get you started using your phone's camera! No pressure - but we are counting on your daughter not to let you down!

Edited October 30, 2018 by sanford

[bradl]

9 hours ago, Toto-lee Cairn said:

I seem to recall reading that in the Cairn's history, the white ones became, ultimately, the White West Highland Terrier?

Via: http://clan-maccallum-malcolm.org/wp-content/uploads/16-Col-Edward-Malcolm.pdf

Quote

The story has it that Colonel Edward Malcolm was hunting with his pack of cairn terriers when he thought he saw a rabbit running through the underbrush and shot it, only to find that he had shot his favorite Cairn. From that day forward, he determined only to breed white dogs, because they were easy to see. At the same time, the Campbell of Rosneath began to breed white dogs which he called “Roseneath” terriers after the name of his estate. Later, the “Poltalloch” and “Roseneath” terriers were combined into the West Highland White Terrier, a name coined by Colonel Malcolm of Poltalloch Estates.

 

[Toto-lee Cairn]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, sanford said:

Take heart, Toto-Lee-Cairn... I've been able to master many of the phone's features, (but not all)...And if I can, anyone can!

Since I retired from teaching back in 2006, I have lost a lot of my tech skills.  I no longer have a first period HS class where I can tell the kids about I problem I ran into, have them laugh and assure me, 'Oh, that is so easy!  All you do is . . . '

I have a *smart* phone several years back, got so frustrated with it, until as soon as I could, traded it for a -- wait, for it! -- a nice flip-phone.  The look on the young fellow's face was, as the commercial says, 'priceless!'  I told him the color of my hair should've been a clue.

I could take photos with the flip-phone, but always had to get someone to then post them for me.  I can't even do that much with this one.  I know that when she has the time, and is here, my tech-savvy girl will show me.  And then, she'll never let me forget it. I can hear it now . . .

'Oh my god, Mom. . .' [add other insults, like how she never got a pony].

 

[bradl]

Quote

add other insults, like how she never got a pony

Oooh, I have been dying for *years* to find a place to use this image  

[Sam I Am]

And Cairns are way cheaper than horses.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Terrier lover

[Toto-lee Cairn]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 10:32 AM, Terrier lover said:

And Cairns are way cheaper than horses.

 

At the rate I'm going, not by much . . .

[Toby's mum]

All the same dog.  Brindle with black mask.  Aka Toby. 

[Toto-lee Cairn]

Well . . . three years old now, and my wheaten brindle is A LOT of silver with dark ears and a mask.  He looks a lot like the Cairns posted here.

When he is clipped a little shorter for the heat and humidity of Summer, you can see the brindle, with its wheaten and red undertones.  My first Toto often looked like a tiger with its coat short, and as it grew out, he was black.

I figure Toto just wants to look like his Momma.  Either that, or he sticks so close to me that the grey and silver rubs off on him.