Training Collar

[gd4]

I took Trina Joy to obedience class last night. Unlike the puppy class, this woman really knows her stuff! I used her with Max, our beloved male cairn mix who we adopted 13 years ago.

Trina pulls terribly on the leash. It is exhausting. The trainer put on a Sprenger prong collar 12" and it worked wonders. She yelped one time then started walking without whining or issues. The trainer worked closely with me and stated this was only for training purposes and soon, she probably would not need it. Also, not to use it when we are not training or on walks.

The breeder does not believe in these. I never did, either. What do you think?

[bradl]

Some thoughts from a previous thread 

 

[gd4]

Thanks, Bradl!

[hheldorfer]

We used a prong  collar on Buffy when we first adopted her because she became Wild Dog on walks.  We only used it for walks.  After a few months we realized we no longer needed it - probably used it longer than we had to, purely out of habit.  It never appeared to cause her any pain.

[gd4]

Thank you, hheldorfer. I appreciate your sharing. I feel this is the route that I will take with Trina. This trainer is very good and as she stated, this is only for training purpose and walks. Trina is terrible about pulling and dragging me across the floor. With one attempt at class last week with a sample collar on, she immediately started walking well. So, imagine, if I continue to work with her. She yelped once. Then, did not appear to be in any pain. The trainer stated that this was her way of letting me know that she didn't like not being in control. My guess, if it was truly hurting her she would demonstrate additional signs.

I ordered the 12" Herm Sprenger ultra plus prong which is supposed to be more gentle with blunt, rounded ends. We will see. I love her very much and would never attempt anything painful. 

[josie&holly]

I think prong collars are not at all good, you do not get them in UK!  would you like prongs stick in your neck!  Anyhow, methods in the USA obviously differ and so should not comment really.

[Sam I Am]

I have to agree with you Josie. Nothing replaces good training. It takes time but well worth it. I see it over and over in the horse world...stronger bits, more gadgets, more and more “quick fixes”. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Terrier lover

[gd4]

Thank you for your perspectives. I have to disagree. First, the prong collar that I am getting is the only type recommended by the trainer made in Germany. It is to be used under her care (she is in her own business and has been a service and therapy dog trainer for 25 years). I do not take these matters lightly. However, I would much rather spend careful training under supervision than months of reckless training with a dog out of control. It is more of a safety issue with a wild dog. I don't see this as a quick fix.

Our dogs are individuals, some dogs are harder to handle than others. If one works full-time and cannot dedicate their day with a dog, it makes it harder. Trina will be one year old on May 31. I had her outside all day and ran her "hard" out in the yard with the ball, along other things. Last night, she went right up until bed non-stop in her little play pen. This is cute and is fine if she played with her "safe" toys that I have spent hundreds of dollars; instead, she pulled up the berber again. I immediately disciplined her and brought her upstairs for two hours. When I brought her back down, she did it again in another spot. I had two Cairns and a schnauzer before this pup. None, even my little Trinity, at her wildest, were ever like this. I now attribute it to being with the breeder until she was near 18 weeks. But, even Max, had behavioral issues when we adopted him from the Cairn rescue at one year --- never like this one. Trina needs training. She needs to be disciplined. I think the problem is that I babied her too much and now I have work to do. I have invested lots of time into her and care for her like a baby. It is easy to say what one would do when they are not in the situation. I am not being cruel. I am doing what is right.

As far as passing the dog along to be "re-homed" - this is not proper, either. Why should I pass along a dog somewhere else to those who will possibly do it again when they find out they are unable to handle her behavior? I am doing what is right. Please don't judge unless you are in the situation.

Edited March 4, 2018 by gd4

[Sam I Am]

It’s not a judgement, just a persons opinion. That’s why we joined this forum, to share information and share our thoughts and opinions. If you are offended by that I won’t share my experiences and knowledge.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Terrier lover

[bradl]

The prong's medieval appearance is a sham — a carny "bed of nails" illusion. I have used one on myself.  The way they are fitted and applied also differs markedly from the way slip training collars are used. 

An image floating around the internet showing the result of an ingrown prong collar is sad and irrelevant — if you look you can find similar damage from ingrown flat collars. That's plain neglect.

I find a prong kinder and more straightforward than the "gentle leader" or head-halter type device for a terrier. Those things depress me as more damaging to a dog's spirit.

And with my own opinion expressed and reiterated I retire from this topic so that others may have equal time to offer theirs.

[Sam I Am]

Brad i respectfully disagree. https://www.sfspca.org/prong/myths

I also will now remove myself from this discussion.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Terrier lover

[gd4]

I would like to retire this discussion. I appreciate all of your perspectives. I will do as I see best and again thank you.

[Hillscreek]

As you may have read above I used a a slip chain collar when training all my dogs. Unfortunately these collars often used incorrectly by not placing them on the neck properly, by yanking on them, even stringing the dog up by them.

I tried a prong collar for a while with Angus as an experiment as it was new to me. I quickly found that even when correctly fitted it is very easy to hurt the dog. He yelped - it was pain. It was because I wasn't yet familiar with it. I did learn to use it but it seemed to me too powerful for such a small dog.  It is another tool that has to be used with care. When I first read about these collars they were marketed for training big powerful police dogs, German Shepherds, Dobermans and the like.

Both these methods control the dog by means of pain - actual or potential. Let's not pretend otherwise.

A terrier and in my small experience, especially a independence minded cairn terrier, takes months and years to train. It's all day every day. You may not be doing a specific training time but your dog watches and know every move you make. Every interaction is an training moment whether recognized or not. e.g for me I always have asked - sit before each meal, wait to go out the door, stand to have leash attached etc. All these little things helped me with my dogs and especially with Angus.

I express only what my experience has been. Every dog is different and every person they live with is different, and every place they live is different. We tend to get emotional about the "right way" to train our dogs. I think it is pretty much impossible to say absolutely one way is the only way.

PS with Trina and the rug. I kept Angus away from rugs,carpets and mats unless I was right there to supervise. In his special area there was vinyl or linoleum on the floor. Actually he wasn't too bad on rugs but a terror with anything made of wood. ☺️They all have their special delights!! Ready to drive us crazy if we let them!

 

[Hillscreek]

Apology - I posted about the same time as you gd4

[gd4]

No worries, Hillscreek. I appreciate your perspective. We all love our Cairns!  Thank you.