Fear and panic

[lamar1]

Fred is deathly afraid of garbage day because of the truck.  He can't find a single place in the house where he feels safe.  He pees and pants, constantly roaming around looking for somewhere he feels safe.  Obviously he can't find it.

Same thing for fireworks, and my neighborhood is full of pyros.  Almost every. Single. Weekend. All. Summer. Long.

He gets so worked up his tongue turns purple.  I've hired trainers (VERY costly) to come to my house and help with this type of thing, but they do very little instruction and more demonstration.  I cannot grasp what they're trying to teach me because they're not teaching!  Seems they say 'watch me get him to do this', just throw treats around on the floor, Fred performs, they leave with my money and I have no more technique or knowledge than I started with.

Once the rocket is launched, there's no getting him back.  The garbage men start roaming the neighborhood around 10am, ending up at our house when I'm home around 12:30pm.  I go home for lunch every day, but by the time I get to him it's far too late to calm him.  His anxiety starts as soon as he hears the truck a few blocks away.

After the truck passes our house, it's almost like a switch.  He stops panting, lays down, breathes fast and shallow, and usually falls asleep.  He's responsive, will take treats, just tired it seems.

I'm worried about this though.  It's uncomfortable for him, and I worry that he's going to give himself a heart attack when he's older.  But I'm not shelling out another $250 or more for some 'behaviorist' to come show me how powerful their technique is without teaching me something.  Fred is my first dog in my life, and I'm 41.  I'm a very technical person, and I don't do well with inference.  I need someone to come see his behavior, figure out how to calm him, and TELL me what they're doing.  There's a disconnect between me and the trainers that I've tried, and I'm afraid it might be deeper than personality.  My mind definitely works in straight, clearly-defined lines.

Anyone have any advice?

[hheldorfer]

I wish I had some special wisdom to offer.  Buffy takes the opposite approach - she barks ferociously at the garbage trucks and/or fireworks to chase them away.  

I wouldn't pursue the 'behaviorist' thing any further.  Sounds like it's just a way to separate you and your money and hasn't done Fred a lick of good.

Have you discussed this with your vet?  I'm not a huge fan of doggie Valium but I have heard it can help.  Another idea:  Do you have a basement?  If so, do you think Fred would feel safer there during the scary times?

 

[Corn Niblet]

 We used to put a Thunder Shirt on our last dog that was afraid of thunder storms. You can get them at petsmart. They work for a lot of different kinds of anxiety.

[Dempsy's Mom]

This sounds like the same way Dempsy gets when he is in the car.  He is just frightful.  The best think that I can do for him is take his little kennel, make is comfortable inside and cover it with a blanket so it's dark.  Just light at the door.  He still pants and has anxiety but I think it lessens it.  When we stop for potty breaks he never wants to get back in the car.  I feel bad for Demps and Fred.  Can you make a safe area for Fred?  I don't think I would waste anymore money on the trainers or behavioral advice.  When you sit with Fred and the garbage man comes does that help?  It helps Dempsy a little bit when I hold him in cars, but he still has anxiety.

[sanford]

I'm in agreement with what has been mentioned above... Trying a Thundershirt, and/or asking vet about doggie valium, etc.

       Although I don't have this problem with Ruffy, I used to look after a friend's dog who had the same issue, and as you describe, it's a terrible thing to see, and for the dog to experience; she was completely inconsolable! During thunderstorms, she would always take refuge in the bathroom; I don't know if there was any correlation between the electricity in the air and the metal plumbing pipes, but if that could help Fred, I would make the bathroom accessible, at the very least. 

      I share your concern that this is so severe, it could impact Fred's health. I hope the vet can help you.

[lamar1]

1 hour ago, hheldorfer said:

I wish I had some special wisdom to offer.  Buffy takes the opposite approach - she barks ferociously at the garbage trucks and/or fireworks to chase them away.  

I wouldn't pursue the 'behaviorist' thing any further.  Sounds like it's just a way to separate you and your money and hasn't done Fred a lick of good.

Have you discussed this with your vet?  I'm not a huge fan of doggie Valium but I have heard it can help.  Another idea:  Do you have a basement?  If so, do you think Fred would feel safer there during the scary times?

 

I called the vet today just for a chat.  There is a behaviorist on staff, and we've seen her once about some mild separation anxiety Fred was having at the end of last summer.  As an aside, that seems to have subsided somehow (not sure if we unconsciously changed something.) But it manifests again if we leave the house too close to the end of garbage day on our street.

I called mainly to see if she'd come observe his behavior and offer some more clinical advice.

Actually, we have Xanax on hand for fireworks.  Fred has also taken to clothing in the past few years...we like to have fun on halloween...so we bought a thundershirt.  If there's a possible precursor to fireworks (like Penguins hockey as of late), we'll pop a Xanax in him around the end of the 1st period, and put his thundershirt on toward the end of the game if a win looks likely.  Fortunately and unfortunately (for testing purposes), the neighbors fireworks subsided after game 3 of the finals, and there were no fireworks celebrating the cup in my neighborhood....probably because those after game 3 were horrendously obnoxious and set off in the middle of the street promptly bringing the police to my block.

He used to feel very secure in the basement, but I think we ruined that.  In recent months we've allowed the cats to venture down there.  I think they've sort of taken ownership.  The novelty has worn off for the cats, and they're not so interested anymore, but I feel like Fred still sees that territory as theirs now.  He'll go down, but not find any comfort in it anymore.

[lamar1]

49 minutes ago, Dempsy's Mom said:

This sounds like the same way Dempsy gets when he is in the car.  He is just frightful.  The best think that I can do for him is take his little kennel, make is comfortable inside and cover it with a blanket so it's dark.  Just light at the door.  He still pants and has anxiety but I think it lessens it.  When we stop for potty breaks he never wants to get back in the car.  I feel bad for Demps and Fred.  Can you make a safe area for Fred?  I don't think I would waste anymore money on the trainers or behavioral advice.  When you sit with Fred and the garbage man comes does that help?  It helps Dempsy a little bit when I hold him in cars, but he still has anxiety.

Sitting with him does seem to help, but it's hard to get him to stop prancing around.  I won't restrain him; I don't think that helps.  I'll sort of sit somewhere for a bit and see if he'll come to me for comfort, but he usually ends up in the kitchen sitting tight against the cabinets.  Then I'll get close to him and just give him some pets and talk to him gently.  That does help a little, but it's hard to get him into that place where he's not trotting around in a panic.

He finds momentary refuge in the spare room upstairs.  Thankfully we have hardwood in all rooms but our bedroom, so when he pees even if it's under the spare bed, it's simple cleanup.  He used to tuck himself in the corner of the wall and the tub, but that area isn't such a hot spot for him anymore.  Used to be his napping spot.

The funny thing is that he's less likely to have the anxiety pee when we're not home.  I've been wanting to put a camera or two around the house to see if it's our presence that gets him going worse than if we're not there, but I always make those buying decisions much more complicated than they need to be.  So I haven't done that yet...

[Idaho Cairns]

If you work every day this may not be a solution but I think what I might do in your circumstance is some kind of direct confrontation.  On garbage day, leash up your dog and walk the neighborhood as the garbage collectors were active.  Start a couple of blocks away and work your way toward and away from the truck as they work with the idea that you end up in your yard when they pick up your garbage.  Talk to him, use treats, keep him calm, sit on the lawn/curb, wherever he is comfortable.  I have had some success getting my Cairns past their phobias by putting them in the situation they feared.
No advice when it comes to fireworks, unfortunately, I have never seen a dog that was "gun shy" cured of that fear once it takes hold--that's one you simply have to try and remove the dog from.

[Hillscreek]

Angus is not afraid of thunder but he was afraid of motorbikes and the hiss of truck's airbrakes when he was young. I did like Idaho suggests. I walked him where he could hear and see but not very near. Gradually moved closer. In one area there was a seat so I many times sat with him on the leash by me and just let him watch traffic go by. Cars came and went and every now and then one of the scary vehicles. I chatted cheerily to him. 'Look at that Angus', 'What a noise' etc. Over some months he lost his fear and now is not bothered by any kind of traffic.

I did have another dog once that was somewhat afraid of storms. I never really cured her of it completely but I did learn it was best to be relaxed and cheerful. I think if you are anxious your dog will pick this up. Cairns are so very attuned to our feelings. If you say there, there, poor doggie, it's  OK, or whatever, it can tend to make them think there really is something to be scared of. When the storm was coming I took out games and tried to have fun things to do. She improved but was never really relaxed in stormy weather.

 

[Account Deleted]

Moggie used to be the same with loud noises.  She would pant, shake frantically..shook  so hard you felt like your sofa had become a vibrating sofa...It got so bad she start to emit a very malodorous scent.  We took her to the  Vet, who recommended a small dose of a tranquiler.  That really helped with decreasing the shaking.  We previously tried distraction techniques, behavioral mod, but she just got worse, could no longer take her suffering, so we when with the meds.

She gradually got less terrified by noises, but then again she is loosing her hearding

Edited June 19, 2016 by moggie
misspell

[lamar1]

All good suggestions.  Thanks.

I have tried walking outside with him into the fenced in backyard when the truck is near to show him.

Funny thing, Hillscreek, you mention the hiss of airbrakes.  I think that's what gets him.  One of the neighbors used a bulldozer to knock down an old (tiny) house on the edge of his property across the alley last summer.  We went for a walk while they were working and he walked right up to the bulldozer.  Very similar sounding diesel.  Didn't bother him one bit.  Then again...that was last year.  We all know how things change with these little guys & girls.

I'm always a little hesitant to take him out while this is going on.  I feel like I might be giving into the 'flight' response.  What do you guys think of that way of thinking?

[sanford]

On June 17, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Idaho Cairns said:

...what I might do in your circumstance is some kind of direct confrontation. I have had some success getting my Cairns past their phobias by putting them in the situation they feared...

Apologies Lamar - This won't be helpful to you, but I cant resist describing Ruffy in this situation...

He gets uncontrollably ballistic at motorcycles, as he did one day when we crossed the street in front of one that had stopped for a red light. I was concerned because the burly "Hell's Angel"-type rider kept loudly revving his engine as we passed, sending Ruffy into a frenzy. Then I noticed that the guy was smiling, so I took Ruffy right up to the cycle saying, "Ok Ruffy, what are you going to do - bite it"? We both got a good laugh at the sight of this little terrier bravely taking on this huge machine, and I was curious to see if Ruffy would actually attack, now that he had the chance, as well as my permission. But no, Ruffy stood a half inch away from the tire, frantically just barking his fool head off! We kept laughing as the driver drove off, waving and shouting above the noise of the engine for us to "have a good day."