Forced sterilization?

[sanford]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this issue. If not, I apologize  and hope that Brad will move it.

 

This issue is currently being reviewed here in New York City and may possibly spread to other locales. Here is an excerpt from a concerned dog owner:

 ...The mayor is holding a public hearing on forced sterlization of dogs in New York City.

This horrible law will impact the health of so many puppies, and basically eliminate purebred puppies from NYC because the breeders are opposed to neutering until later in life, if at all...

 ...And many studies show that if a dog is sterilized too young, there could be many long-term health issues, especially for young females. 

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Is sterilization potentially harmful? If so, how? Shouldn't such a law exempt purebreds, as required for breeding or for showing? Yet wouldn't such a law have the benefit of reducing the overpopulation of shelter dogs? I'm really on the fence re this issue because I don't have enough information.

 

Any opinions?

 

Edited December 23, 2014 by sanford

[hheldorfer]

This is a tough issue and I can see why you are wrestling with it.  A few things popped into my head as I read your post, Sanford.  First, I would be shocked if there was not some type of exemption for show dogs.  I know it is verboten to show a dog that has been spayed/neutered, so I find it hard to believe the city that hosts Westminster would require the offspring of purebred show dogs (bred by reputable breeders) to be sterilized. 

 

I agree that all dogs and cats in shelters should be sterilized but I know very little of the possible adverse health effects.  (Even so, what is better:  The possibility of adverse effects from early sterilization or the continued dumping of thousands of dogs into shelters?) 

 

I am in favor of anything that will reduce or eliminate backyard breeders who produce litter after litter of Pit Bulls and other potentially dangerous dogs, many of which end up in shelters - or worse, in dog fights.  Ditto for the breeders who produce "designer dogs" like Ziggy, our Silky Tzu.  I love Ziggy to death but realize he was a little experiment produced for sheer monetary gain. 

 

Sadly, this type of legislation would not be necessary if all people were conscientious pet owners. 

 

I am interested in following this story.  Do you have a link to info regarding the proposed legislation?

[Hillscreek]

 what is better:  The possibility of adverse effects from early sterilization or the continued dumping of thousands of dogs into shelters? 

Sadly, this type of legislation would not be necessary if all people were conscientious pet owners. 

 

 

Unfortunately many (most?) dog owners know very lttle about what it takes to own and care for a dog. Cute puppy is never trained and by the time it is 9/10 months old it is a pain in the a**s and is dumped. Cute puppy is like a live toy, alas it is a living being not a toy.

Many breeders require their pups to be neutered. They make it part of the sales agreement as few of the pups born will ever be shown. This was the case for me when I bought a Golden.

Re the health question. I think studies need to be done on thousands of dogs over many years to  to determine the effects of neutering. For example the Golden Retrievers breed mentioned in the article happens to be a breed unusually subject to a variety of cancers whether or not they are neutered.

Many dogs do not have any health problems during their lives that can be definitively linked to neutering.

 

It would be nice to wait till dog was matures -at six months they can make babies. But alas people forget to do this, don't want to spend the money etc etc. They adopt and say they will get the dog neutered but then they don't.

 

So though we may hate it the shelters have to take action to prevent thousand (actually millions) more unwanted births. And to try and cut down on the millions of dogs they have to put down every month.

[Hillscreek]

Well gttd that maybe true. I would have to look up my Golden's papers but I seem to think I could not register her and get AKC papers until I proved she had been spayed. 

If you didn't care about the papers or you falsified papers you could do what you want. Not too many breeders will be prepared to go to court. Especially with a breed like a Golden who might commonly have eight or more pups. 

But at least some breeders are trying to restrict their litters being bred.

 

Alas any breeder,puppy mill or otherwise, can register a pure bred dog/bitch. And though we may weep and gnash our teeth if there is money to be made dogs will be bred. I can register my Yorkie and my Poodle and breed Yorkiepoos and make a bundle so..........

Pennsylvania where I live is a big puppy mill State. The dogs are regarded as another crop like chickens or pigs or cattle.

I think you don't see "free puppies" any more because mixed breeds are fashionable. Why give 'em away when you can make money off them.

[tlwtheq]

That topic leaves me feeling helpless.  People of good conscience will always do the right thing to protect

the welfare of our nonhuman friends and family, including making responsible decisions about

neuter vs. not.  And inevitably, people who view nonhumans as property will always treat them as

such...worthless (or worth money... property).  I wish government weren't in the middle of these decisions, but then I hear stories

like I did this week where 22 people were arrested in/around Baltimore in a dog-fighting ring.  The number

of confiscated dogs ended up being over 225, 20+ being puppies.  I was certainly glad to have government

interfere in that case.  I wish there were just a plain "do the right thing" law.  Ya know, something like

the golden rule except including all planet earth citizens.  Ah...I wish, I wish, I wish...

 

P.S. - I'm really glad for those puppies; they might have a chance of living a loved/loving life.

Edited December 23, 2014 by tlwtheq

[Sam I Am]

I know our humane centre sterilizes all the dogs that come through their doors. Even tiny puppies. I don't necessarily agree with that as I know our vet clinic is not in favour of early sterilization. But I get why the humane people do it. There are so many many unwanted dogs and cats that suffer our extreme cold winters with owners that are totally irresponsible. In our national parks all animals must be sterilized if they live there (not sure about show dogs) .

What I would like to see is our government pass laws on prohibiting the sale of dogs, cats and exotic pets through pet stores and puppy mills. Also making fines and jail terms way stiffer for people that abuse or mistreat animals.

[sanford]

http://vitalanimal.com/neutering/

 

Although its long, I thought this link from gone to the dogs had a lot of good info. Thanks, g t t d!

 

Edited December 24, 2014 by sanford

[sanford]

hheldorfer, on 23 Dec 2014 - 3:36 PM, said:

I am interested in following this story.  Do you have a link to info regarding the proposed legislation?

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hheldorfer, here is a link which might give you more info. I hope this will work for you.

Read AKC’s previous legislative alert for more information and talking points.

Edited December 24, 2014 by sanford

[Lynn in TN]

I am just a simple Appalachian country girl. I seem to have a view that some do not agree with, but here it goes. It seems to me that we have enough laws on the books already to take care of the problem. It is illegal already to mistreat animals, it is illegal to fight dogs already. In my state it is illegal to let an animal run loose. It still happens. Why? Irresponsible people (criminals) do not follow laws.

They need to enforce the laws on the books already, and it will take care of the problem. I am very frustrated about the mistreatment of animals, children, adults. The laws are in place already that protect all the above, why are they not working? Will another law stop it, when we have so many laws already?

 

 These laws just affect law abiding citizens. It's ridiculous, and to be honest I am getting real tired of it. I wonder how long it will be before they impose laws on how many children humans can have? They are already trying to tell us what we can eat, and drink.

 

My opinion on it all!

[sanford]

 

gone to the dogs, on 24 Dec 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

he was sickly and had been marked way down for quick sale.

He is thriving now (2 years old) health wise  I just knew he was a good dog. "A diamond in the rough"

 

 

Good for you, GTTD… You trusted your instincts and did the right thing and probably saved his life!

                                                   

P.S. The interrogation process at a shelter (or from a rescue organization) can be too daunting for some folks, but they have a responsibility to do their absolute best when adopting out dogs who can't speak for themselves…and pair up the right dog with the right owner….But there is no excuse for rudeness.

 

Edited December 26, 2014 by sanford

[Hillscreek]

Agree  with Lynn. You can pass all the laws you want but unless they are enforced they are worthless.

Can you imagine the police or any other force going door to door in NYC or any other place checking? And fining? and taking folks to court? I don't think so.

Out here in the country where I live there's one animal shelter serving a vast area. The nearest dog warden or whatever it might be called is fifty miles away. We have to do what we can ourselves.

I know a cairn who was rescued the same way gttd got hers.    I also know people who have tried to get a dog from a shelter but who have been refused even though they are experienced dog owners.

The puppy mills are often licensed breeders. Who is to determine who should be a breeder and who should not?

Which is worse, neutering young pups, or unwanted litters? One accidental breeding can produce six to eight pups who can produce.................

It's not an easy question. I guess each one of us can only do what we can in our own way.

[Hillscreek]

What is Animal Control? Don't think we have that where I live. 

Well I thought I'd better find out so I called my vet. They told me they keep rabies records in each dog's file and owner of the dog has a copy plus a tag for the collar but they are not required to send the records  anywhere. 

Registering the dog is up to each individual. Supposed to be done annually or a fine imposed. However some owners do not register their dogs at all.

We have a dog warden to call if there is a problem. However that person covers two remote and mountainous townships with a total area of 2,138 sq.miles. She is not going to be checking each household. She's probably not going to be following up on census records either. Hard enough following up on the emergency calls she gets

Vet's office told me regulations differ according to each State.

[hheldorfer]

I have to agree with Hillscreek - there's no reliable and practical way to enforce such a law in a city the size of New York.  Despite all the technology at our fingertips, the multitude of city departments keeping records don't necessarily "talk" to one another; the systems are not fully compatible and integrated.  And I have never filled out a census form that asked about pets.  Even if some census forms *do* ask those questions, the people completing them can easily lie.  The census is from the federal government - not the city or state - and, again, cross-checking city records against the U.S. Bureau of Census isn't an easy undertaking. 

[sanford]

Hillscreek wrote:

"What is Animal Control? Don't think we have that where I live…" 

"Registering the dog is up to each individual. Supposed to be done annually or a fine imposed. However some owners do not register their dogs at all…"

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• Here in NYC Animal Control is called Animal Care and Control, (ACC). I think it was formed some years ago to take over some of the functions that the ASPCA used to perform, such as picking up strays. As far as I know, the ASPCA is a no-kill facility, but ACC is. However, I believe that the ASPCA turns over their unadoptable dogs & cats to ACC, so I guess that makes the ASPCA a no-kill shelter in name only!… (Public Relations sleight of hand, perhaps)?                                                                                                                                                    

• It's true that some owners don't bother to register their dogs here. The only times I've heard about owners being fined for this was when they had their dogs off-leash and were being issued a summons for that. When the officer discovered that the dog also had no registration, an additional summons was issued.

Edited December 27, 2014 by sanford