Prong collars

[Sam I Am]

http://www.dogheirs.com/tamara/posts/5416-amazon-uk-pulls-prong-collars-after-e-petition-gets-support

I would love to put this around the owners neck.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Terrier lover

[bradl]

Fair enough about that particular owner.   I don't find the conclusions follow from the provocatively extreme example, however.

 

Indeed I feel pretty much the opposite: a prong collar can be one of the gentler means to an end, along a continuum of available tools. No doubt "mileage will vary."

 

I'm skeptical that those wounds had anything to do with training use. I can't know of course but my guess would be the dog was fitted with a collar and it was never removed. You can find equivalent photos of ordinary collars literally ingrown into the necks of dogs who have been habitually chained and forgotten. Imagine the crippling you could do with a harness if you put one on a young dog and literally never took it off.

 

Vets and animal control officers see many things that would turn our stomachs. Yet thoughtful people are still somehow able to make use of tie-outs and regular collars without torturing dogs. Likewise with prongs and even e-collars, in my humble opinion. I like positive training as much as the next guy, but I doubt I'd trust rattlesnake proofing to cheddar cheese and clickers. Some things benefit from a negative reinforcement, not a positive alternative.

 

Water itself can be used to quench thirst; to grow crops;  to bore holes in metal; to create sculptures; to torture human beings; to drown puppies.  Etc.  You can't ban stupid, and cruel will find expression unless the root cause is addressed.

[Sam I Am]

I totally agree Brad, unfortunately there are always people that misuse all kinds of equipment in regards to training animals. And in that respect I can see outlawing prong collars and alike due to "stupid" people that have no idea how to use them and the animals suffers for it. Having had horses for over 45 yrs, showing for a good part to those years, I have seen torturous bits and equipment that cause terrible pain and suffering . Bits like prong collars are only as severe as the human on the other end. Sanctioned shows have very strict regulations as to what equipment can and cannot be used. But and this is only my humble opinion, and I don't want to offend anyone, but if you cannot train an animals without using all these gadgets, be it dog or horse, you have failed in your basic training and need to go back to square one, or seek professional help.

I also want to post this from a very well known and respected US veterinarian, Dr Jean Dodds. Interesting thought on the use of this kind of collar. http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/41645121585/dog-collars-thyroid#.Uyxzn_ldWSo

[Hillscreek]

There's no evidence in that gruesome pic that the prong was used for training. More like that it was put on and left on either too tight or too small.

Any training method can be abused. A whip can lash a horse in punishment or guide it. Should the whip be outlawed because some people misuse it?

Sanctioned shows may control equipment used for horse and dog but once out of the ring..............who knows?

I doubt refusing to sell an item will make any difference. Just buy one somewhere else.

Different situations require different methods and different animals respond differently to training. A Cairn is not a Golden for example.

Re the Dodds article. 'Gentle leader' type training works by causing discomfort and pain. It's like a halter on a horse. Pressure on

nose and poll. Can be misused like other training method.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Hillscreek

[Sam I Am]

Ok I knew this would open a can of worms and it wasn't what I intended. I just wanted to point out that equipment that can potentially cause injury when misused can cause serious damage. As far as a halter causing any damage to a 1200 pound animal I suspect would be very rare. Yes it causes pressure on the poll and nose but in all my years around horses I have never seen an injury caused by a simple halter. A war halter..yes!

I totally get what both of you are saying and I agree. There are always cruel individuals that will misuse anything from a whip to a wooden spoon. Should we outlaw them ..of course not. However, I still feel strongly about things like prong collars, e collars, spurs with rowels, as equipment that has no place in training an animal. Just my opinion and no reflection on other individuals. I am pretty sure there is no one on this site that would ever use a prong collar to hurt their dog given how much we all love our animals.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Terrier lover

[josie&holly]

I agee with you Terrier Lover, and am very glad that Amazon in Uk no longer sells these, as many other shops in Uk do not sell them either. I also think electric collars are bad for the dog too.

But like you say, it is a can of worms, and you are never going to have everyone agreeing with you but at the same time everyone is allowed their own opinion on this and it is something that is bound to cause a diffwrence of those opinions.