Need help housetraining our Cairn Terrier

[tweetjj]

Hello All,

I will give you a little background, then describe the housebreaking struggles we have been having. I hope that you experts will give me some advice that will help our situation.

We have had Toto for little over a month. He just turned one. We got him from a couple who were moving out of state and could not bring him with them. Toto has acclimated well to our family. My wife and I have five children ages are 18, 14, 11, 7, and 5. We also have an 11 year old Golden Retriever named Toby who is as gentle as a lamb. We got Toto for my youngest because she wanted a small dog and because of her favorite movie. No surprise its Wizard of Oz. We have Toto in discipline class. We have been to four sessions and he is very trainable. He sits and stays on command. Having trouble getting him to lay down and am working on getting him to come when I call his name. We love camping and hiking as a family and want Toto to be part of these activities. We take him and Toby to the dog park several times a week. He is very social and loves to play with the bigger dogs. He never barked when we first got him, but is now barking a lot. Not a major problem. I think we can work through it.

But now the big problem. He pees several times a day and poops a couple times a week in the house. He has peed on our furniture a few times. We keep Toto in his crate when we are away from the house and at night. When the kids are downstairs we let Toto be out with the family, but the younger kids don't keep very good watch of him, often to busy watching Disney Channel. We take him out 4-5 times a day. We praise him profusely when he does his business outside. Toto still has all his parts and will be getting him neutered next week. Hoping that may help with the peeing. My wife and I have gone from irritated to angry with the peeing. Even though we have grown attatched to Toto if this continues we will have to find him a new home. We are not willing to compromise the cleanliness of our home and furniture.

So there it is. Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Tom Jensen

[DawnandTuk-tuk]

Welcome to the forum. First if you are letting Toto free feed, I would stop and give him two meals a day to create consistent poop times. Most dogs have to poop soon after eating so you will begin to be able to determine when those needs are about to happen and prepare by going outside. I would also invest in some baby gates to partition 'safe' areas of the house and not leave him unattended outside these areas so that if he does have an accident it won't harm carpet or furniture. Also, simply put, no five year old (or 7 and probably not the 11 y/o for that matter) is old enough to be responsible for a dog. I would suggest using the search feature in the bottom left of this page and enter potty training, you'll get tons of hits and plenty of different suggestions to try.

[sanford]

You may have identified one of the problems; Toto's not neutered. Another is that he's very young and has undergone a great change in his life. Cairns are very sensitive & emotional. The adjustment to his new home + all the kids + another dog may be the reason for his peeing & pooping & marking. The house is filled with a world of new smells, including those of your golden. He may be leaving his scent to mark his territory to announce he's establishing his turf... a very canine thing to do. My cairn did that for a while after I adopted him, but he stopped and never does it anymore.

"My wife and I have gone from irritated to angry with the peeing. Even though we have grown attatched to Toto if this continues we will have to find him a new home. We are not willing to compromise the cleanliness of our home and furniture".

I was very unwilling to compromise the neatness & cleanliness of my home when I got my pup. My priorities/standards changed with his arrival and I have a much more relaxed approach to this topic now. You must have a wonderfully busy, active home with all your kids and dogs, It sounds ideal to add a little cairn! I hope you get through this without giving Toto away. It looks like you will have to start over with Toto and go back to strict toilet training 101, keeping him more confined, only allowing him access to areas that his toileting won't damage. Can you put your 11, 14 or 18 year old in charge? Toto obviously must be watched by someone, perhaps with the leash hooked to their belt, who can be alert to the signals he gives (sniffing, circling} before toileting and stop him with a "no" and scoop him up to go outside.

I hope you can have the patience to give it more time. It can be very rewarding see the progress that eventually takes place...and a great example/lesson for your kids to see the benefits of persistance and not giving up!

P.S. Your easily trainable golden may have spoiled you. We also have a golden in our family...The difference between these 2 breeds is like night & day! When we added the cairn, it was almost as if we'd never even had a dog before. Having easily trained our golden, didn't prepare us for what to expect with our cairn! Neither breed is better...they're just different.

Edited August 20, 2009 by sanford

[pkcrossley]

i agree with the friendly suggestion that having a dog like a retriever does not provide a very realistic understanding of what training (or in this retraining) a terrier is like. toto is still in the probationary period of training and when he is out of the crate he has to be watched. if people don't watch and he pees or poops, he is doing it because of the inconsistency in management at this important period. consistency is absolutely essential in training or socializing all terriers, whether the subject is house training or barking restraint or surrendering toys or whatever. it's a valuable skill to learn for all kinds of reasons, and is only one of the factors in people feeling brilliant and accomplished when they have raised a good cairn. a cairn is a long process, though when it is finished there is no better dog.

terriers are best trained with NILIF. toto should eat on a schedule, but only after he has sat politely and waited. he should play with toys as long as he observes the rules of no guarding, no growling, no nipping, and, if you think it desirable, no barking. he should be monitored to make sure his elimination habits are correct. it is important the system be both consistent and fair --he should not be left in the crate or safe room longer than he can hold, and he should not be expected to do other behaviors that are beyond his ability or maturity (a one-year old cairn is still a very young dog).

[kjwarnold]

I agree with the others that you've going to have to go back to Housetraining 101 with Toto. Using NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) also seems to work well with terriers. As an example, at our house, they have to sit before I put the food bowls down. Anyway, back to the housetraining. Be sure to take him outside as soon as you let him out of his crate. Also take him outside after eating (the time frame varies with each dog) and after drinking a lot of water. And invest in a bottle of Nature's Miracle, to spray on if he makes a mistake -- it takes the odor away. You could attach him to you or another member of your family with a leash in the house. That way he can't sneak off to do his business when you're not looking. And it lets you catch him if he's starting to lift a leg or hunch up the back end. It's the perfect opportunity to reinforce the "Go outside" and get him out there fast. Some people find puppy pads are helpful during housetraining.

You'll find lots of helpful hints here on housetraining. I hope the neutering helps and you start to get in a good routine with Toto. Cairns are great dogs (although different to train than Goldens!) and love to have lots of activity. They have more personality than some people! Good luck!

[Tracy A.]

Also, if you're not using an enzym based cleaner for the urine, you need to start using one.

Dog will mark or pee where it smells 'like the bathroom' to them... They will also 'mark' where it smells like urine...and sometimes they just 'mark' for the heck of it too.... getting him fixed will help with this... You might also want to consider getting a belly band for him when he is in the house... esp. if he is a stelth marker.

I recently started using a new enzyme cleaner called 'natures scecret weapon', it isn't cheap- but it's a concentrate that you mix with water- ive found it to be so much better and effective than the enzyme cleaners in the petstore. You can only get it online if you want to try it.

I also tried something called SCOE 10X, which is basicly the same price as the Nature's secret weapon... but it didn't work nearly as well.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Mysticsol8

[tweetjj]

Thank you all for your advise and suggestions. I would like to respond to a few of them.

We do not let Toto free feed. We feed him a half a cup of food in the morning and another half a cup at night. We then consistently take him out to the back yard 20 minutes after feeding. He does not have a problem going in the bathroom outside.

We do not let Toto upstairs, so he is limited to the downstairs, which has tile and wood floors, so clean up is not a problem. Lifting his leg on the furniture is a whole other matter. We have been thinking about putting him in the downstairs bathroom occasionally instead of the crate. Is that a good idea?

We have been keeping Toto on a leash attached to our pants, but have not been very consistent. We will be more consistent with this.

I too hope that getting him neutered will help. He does seem to be marking his territory a lot. Another question, when we go on walks he likes to leave his mark 5-6 times. Should I be letting him do that or keep walking and not let him leave his mark? And now that I think about it, I highly doubt that he is urinating because of a full bladder, its more like he just wants to go. Either because he is marking or some other reason I don't know about.

I agree that Toto was introduced to a whole house full of new sights, smells and sounds, but he seems to be quite comfortable around all of us. He is a very sensative dog and has a long memory when something startles him. My 7 year old thought he was playing with Toto by chasing him around the house and clapping, but since then Toto has been barking at him like he is afraid or mad at him. This has gotten better over time, but it taught us we need to be more aware of his sensativity.

I agree that our golden has spoiled us and that they are different breeds. Training the golden was a breeze. But I think it helps Toto with obedience training when I have both dogs sit and stay on command and he sees the big golden next to him listening to the commands and he looks like he should be doing what the golden is doing. Like a little brother modeling a big brother.

pkcrossley said I should use the NILIF. What is that exactly?

Finally, I hope I did not come off too strong with that we need to keep a sanitary house. We understand that accidents are part of owning a dog, we just want the amount of accidents to go down. We plan on doing all we can to train Toto to be a part of our family and will work on being more consistent with him. I, personally have grown very attached to the little guy and have no plans of letting him go.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

[pkcrossley]

" We have been thinking about putting him in the downstairs bathroom occasionally instead of the crate. Is that a good idea?"

in my opinion, yes! i have found that when my cairn was a puppy (and at other times of stress that have caused him setbacks or upset), a bathroom or laundry room can be set up as a "safe room," either for containment when the house is empty of people or as a "time-out" space for a puppy that needs discipline (for tantrums or fighting or learning how to spend some time alone or whatever). just put up everything that he shouldn't have, put some comfy towels or bedding in the room (and chew toys if there is no discipline issue), a small water bowl, and have the set-up ready to be used as needed. i think this is an excellent way to keep pressure off owners who worry about house-training accidents, and a very humane way to keep a dog confined without using the greater discipline of a crate.

kjwarnold describes NILIF above. such training should, ideally, create a total framework for a terrier's life so that the dog has complete (consistent) information regarding the consequences (good or bad) of each behavior. he can begin to discipline himself (more or less --it is the only way to reach terriers, in my opinion) in response to expectations that he be polite and considerate at all times. in my opinion conventional conditioning has only a weak effect on terriers; they tend instead to make a fresh calculation each time they get a "command," and if you want them to decide in your favor you have to be consistent enough that the terrier will not waste time trying to get around you. don't reward them capriciously, and never scold them or give them a time-out capriciously. getting angry is counter-productive, since cairns are best chastened by simply being ignored or isolated (as in the "safe room"). but don't do that capriciously, either, as they feel the sting of rejection very keenly.

Edited August 21, 2009 by pkcrossley

[Tracy A.]

We do not let Toto upstairs, so he is limited to the downstairs, which has tile and wood floors, so clean up is not a problem. Lifting his leg on the furniture is a whole other matter. Tom

Hi Tom,

You still need to use an enzyme based cleaner... even on hard surfaces. Since wood is porus you really do want to use an enzyme cleaner. You can take a black light and go around the house (at night) looking for urine- it will glow 'yellow' under black light (FYI most cleaner residue will glow white under black light).

This will help you find the areas you need to use an enzyme based cleaner on.

Once a month I am crawling around with a black light checking things out in the house.

Also, you comment about Toby being a sensitive dog, it's a breed trait... most are sensitive.

[cairnsby3]

I think the neutering will help with the marking. It sounds like you are doing alot right. The biggest thing I have seen between cairns and say goldens, is that Toby doesn't care about pleasing you like your golden does. Cairns are very materialist and if there is something in it for them, they will do it. That's why NILIF (nothing in life is free) works so well. examples: having to sit before the food is put down, if you want to play with Toby with a toy, having to sit, or down before you start playing, in other words no good stuff just for being cute.

[dianer]

We have a leg lifter here and he wears a belly band called Simple Solution with a sanitary pad whenever he is inside. It's a last resort for sure since I don't

think it helps to train, just prevents messes.

[Sandi16]

I think it's pretty common for Cairns to not train as quickly as a lot of breeds. As long as your consistent it will get better. Good luck. They really are a true delight once things settle down.

Cairns are super sensitive. If I call Louie in from a barking jag, he crawls in, knowing he's made me unhappy. But, he doesn't seem to remember that while he's barking his fuzzy face off!!

[Kramersmom]

I agree 100% with what everyone else has said. The Wizard of Oz was also my favorite chidhood movie. I always said when I grow up I'm going to get a toto dog. Well 2 weeks before our wedding I got my first Cairn Missy.

I knew when I was a child the breed was out. My folks had Bostons, German sheapards so I knew the breed was for me when I grow up. I kinew the way my mom was so I never even brought it up as my dad was the dog lover.

Missy passed away over 4 years ago at age 17. I know have Kramer who is a joy. Missy was 6 years old when our son was born. He learned as he grew up how to be gentle etc... with animals.

My Kramer goes nuts when kids are over and they run all over (Neices, nephews) he joins on it but chases and barks but lovesd the play. Also always keep doors locked so no chance of toto gettig out an open door outside. Never leave off leash in my opinion no matter how well they obey. Never know when a rabbit runs pass them if they will listen when you say STOP! I never ever take that chance. About my home. I told hubby this last house we built I want all wood floors so the Pee can be wiped up! When I had Missy my carpet got to the point it smelled so wood floors were put in.

My personnel feelings is when you have a pet or pets accidents happen but there is nothing like the love and affection these animals give us. I guess it's like do you want pee on the carpet or true love from a little lovable Cairn.

I know no one wants pee all over but give it time the neuter willk help. Loving an animal with there unconditional love pee doesn't matter to me. It gets cleaned up or buy natures miracle by the truck load

Edited August 21, 2009 by Kramersmom

[DawnandTuk-tuk]

I'm so glad to hear your ready to hunker down with some serious training! As many have already said once you make that investment of time with your Cairn there is no better dog since what makes NILIF training so effective with these guys is also part of what makes them so endearing--they think for themselves. They are very smart and totally funny. I hope you have lots of success in your training, of all the advice you get consistency with any training program you use will be paramount. By the way, we all love to see pictures! And I'm curious, is Toto a dark colored Cairn? When we got Tuk-tuk the guy suggested I name him Toto but I said no cause I already had his name picked.

[BetsyNoodle]

I have had four dogs during my adulthood. When they were pups, immediately after I fed them, I would take them to the same area in my backyard and stay out there with them until they did their business, and then praised them. I also watched them lack a hawk when they were indoors and took them out very regulary after they drank water or played. Playing indoors or raising a dog's level of excitement (being chased around the house by a child) can also give the dog an urge to empty his bladder. Consistency, patience and persistence are key to housetraining. Also, thoroughly cleaning the areas the dog soils is paramount, so he/she don't continue to think that part of your house is the indoor toilet. The Humane Society of the United States has an excellent article about housetraining. Insert the word housetraining in their search bar, and it will come up.

My little min pin, Ralphie, was very--did I say very?--difficult to housetrain. After I had him neutered he continued to mark all my furniture! My astute vet later explained (to my chagrin) that neutering does not cure marking issues in many dogs. What finally "cured" him was the use of a belly band. He simply could not tolerate a wet belly band! Of course, as soon as I saw he had wet it, I took it off him and put him outside for a bit. I found belly bands to be an indispensable aid in helping me to finally housetrain Ralphie.

Edited August 22, 2009 by BetsyNoodle

[BetsyNoodle]

Also, I wanted to add that Toto is still very new to your household if you have only had him a little over a month. I adopted/rescued Murphy when he was two, and we had housetraining mishaps for at least 2-3 months after we brought him home, despite my diligence and watchfulness. Cairns, IMO, are very sensitive dogs. If you are angry at them, they sense it. I found that if you express your anger in a loud voice or use a harsh tone, it can actually make matters worse. So, with Murphy when he had an indoor "accident" that we witnessed, I would say a firm (not loud) "No! Outside!" and immediately take him outside. He now knows the word "outside", so if he isn't standing at the door waiting to be let out, I can ask "Outside?" and he runs to the door.

Good luck.

[Shazza]

NILIF Edited August 23, 2009 by Shazza

[Kit'sOwner]

Have been housebreaking my puppy for 3 months now. Agree with what everyone has posted. We crate train our pup when we're at home and when we're not at home. We feed her twice a day and do not give her access to unlimited water. We let her out once an hour when we're home or directly after play with our other dog or play with humans or after eating or napping or crating. Agree that he's in a new situation and you have to go back to housebreaking 101. Agree that belly bands might work as may neutering, though probably think that patience and time will be the trick. Also agree to the use of baby gates and granting access to the other parts of the house over time and when you think you can predict when your dog needs to go. Regarding the safe time out area in terms of the bathroom - I tried this and think that I really freaked my dog out so instead of "timing her out" I have bee n training her to not do the things that would necessitate a time out ie: nipping, in our case.

Again, when we can't watch her, she's in the crate - whether we're home or not.

I have learned that this breed takes longer. I'm used to labs who are fully trained at 12 weeks so I have had to adjust my attitude.

Good luck!

[Myrna]

I have a cairn terrier.  I had her boxed trained but something happened and she goes in the shower or anywhere.  We are trying to train her to go outside we take her out a lot.  She will not go.   We also have to see our doctors and she will hold it for 8 hours or more.  I worry.   She is 11 months old.   We live 3 hours from our doctors.   3 hours back plus seeing the doctor.  She got a infection.  How do I get her to go outside and in the box

[Kyles mom]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:12 PM, Myrna said:

I have a cairn terrier.  I had her boxed trained but something happened and she goes in the shower or anywhere.  We are trying to train her to go outside we take her out a lot.  She will not go.   We also have to see our doctors and she will hold it for 8 hours or more.  I worry.   She is 11 months old.   We live 3 hours from our doctors.   3 hours back plus seeing the doctor.  She got a infection.  How do I get her to go outside and in the box

We're having trouble with our 4 month boy and training  too. His litter wasn't home trained so its been slow. He will sit for a treat and starting to know his name. Both of our Cavaliers were totally trained at 4 months.  Is this stubbornness typical for Cairn pups?

[bradl]

3 hours ago, Kyles mom said:

Is this stubbornness typical for Cairn pups?

If not in the breed standard, it should be  

[Toto-lee Cairn]

On 8/21/2009 at 12:57 PM, cairnsby3 said:

.  .  .   in other words no good stuff just for being cute.

Is this ever MY downfall!  I find my Cairn so endearing, until he could just 'have the whole darn farm,' so to speak.

I really do have have to ask myself, 'Now, just why is this little fellow getting this?  being able to do this?' and so on.  My good friend pointed out to me that whenever I am away from the house, I keep an eye peeled for 'something' for the Boys -- a special treat, a new toy. . .  She is right.  I have decided now that in the event I cannot resist the temptation to get the Boys *something,* it goes into a Goodie Bag now, and becomes very special treat for something exceptionally good.  

The 'Boys' could not be more different.  My husband's dog is a Weimaraner.  He has had a Weimaraner since he was a child, old enough to take care of a dog within reason.  The story goes that the gentleman who had two, asked my husband's parents if he could gift one of his puppies to the boy -- it was the only way he could see that he'd have his pair of Weimaraners.  Ironically, it didn't work that way at all.  He had two grown Weemies, and a puppy, that followed him around all day and wanted to play with him, first and foremost.

When I discovered a 'Toto' was an actual breed, I knew I wanted one, and felt equipped to handle one.  My first experience with a terrier was a Jack Russell, my daughter's first dog.  We adopted Cosmos from the local Humane Society, and he had been sorely abused -- the puppy had been from Santa in the generation of 'My Dog, Skip' and was a perfect example of wrong dog for the situation.  The family dog was a Lab.  You 'write' the story.

Once Cosmos learned to trust us not to 'hurt' him, or be heavy-handed with the discipline, he turned out to be the perfect little fellow for us -- especially where we lived, and how we lived, at the time.  I didn't know what NILIF was, per se, but seemed to understand he responded well to 'earning things.'  Cosmos was (2) when we adopted him, and he went on to live to see his 21st birthday.  He was truly delightful, and kept us in stitches with his antics.

I adopted my first Toto maybe 3-4 years before we lost the JRT.  Toto had belonged to an elderly gentleman, who died, and was left with his son, also an old-er gentleman, who suffered a heart attack and died, himself.  Toto would not let me out of his sight, and at the time, I was newly-retired so it was ok to have a 'shadow.'  And Toto made (3) -- the JRT, and a Weimaraner my husband 'rescued.'  Poor dog had been left, literally tied to a tree.  (WHO does such a thing to an animal?)

Now on my 3rd 'Toto,' I have learned all things come in due time.  Might not be MY preferred schedule, but I find some way to make it work.  This Cairn is proving to be a challenge with house-training, doing exactly what some here have bemoaned.  We go out for 30 minutes, and he will take care of business, but then right into the house, and squat and pee.  I cannot, for the life of me, figure it out.  I just have to watch him closely, and try to anticipate when he may want to squat and pee.  Sometimes, I am successful getting him out the door; other times, not.

Good luck with the housebreaking.  Try not to take it 'personally' or consider it a 'failure' on your part.  You will realize at some point, 'Hey, we didn't have an 'accident' today, to no accidents for 2-3 days' then maybe a week.'  And so it goes.