a few coat questions

[kurtlaynevedder]

My first question doesn't pertain to Cairns but to my Westie. I know it's a little off topic, but many of you own Westies and are knowledgeable about them. My Westie has (for the past few months) obtained a very greasy coat. His coat has always been very harsh (despite multiple groomings where his body is completely shaved). He was groomed about two months ago and he became very greasy afterward (usually when he is shaved his undercoat is extremely soft). I bathed him since and after about a day he was greasy again. It is unattractive and leaves our hands oily after petting him. Any comments on why this is so? He is getting older (around 7). Could that be a factor?

Also, Annie (my Cairn) is already a year old, which I can't believe. Anyways, I have tried hard to keep a good coat and obtain the classic groomed Cairn look. She is obviously not a show dog (being that she is only 8 1bs and tiny in every way), but I still love the Cairn look and want to keep her skin healthy. Anyways, her head furnishing are very thin, almost like she still has puppy hair. I have continuously stripped her head so theoretically it should be thick and harsh. It is so thing that you can see her scalp when the wind blows. Any tips on stripping the head? Also, I am having trouble getting the rounded shape. I love her not matter what, but i'd like to get her looking the way that made me love the Cairn. Are there any products (powders etc.) that will make her head furnishing look thicker and fuller? Here are some pics of her taken a few days ago. Does anyone have any tips (upon look at the pictures) on how to better groom her?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27774642@N06/...57618540789854/

[kjwarnold]

I don't have any answers, but I wonder why Westies aren't stripped like Cairns?

A lot of Cairns have that flyaway hair on their heads -- mine both do. I know there are lots of tricks that people use when they show their dogs to make it look like they have a nice, thick head of hair. It will be interesting to hear what answers you get. But why bother to use products if you aren't showing?

[Shazza]

Our female has the perfect Cairn fur. When I strip/groom her head I use "Mane 'n Tail" conditioner to fluff it out, then I use "Terrier Chalk" to really get a grip on it.

To me, it seems as if the conditioner "fluffs" her hair out, if that makes any sense.

Our male has the thinner hair on his head, I do the same for him but in January I completely stripped him down to his undercoat.

His fur is growing back nicely now, so hopefully in the summer his head will look better and fuller.

I don't have any magic tricks unfortunately.

[kintra]

Westies are typically handstripped, from the show aspect anyway.

With the greasy coat, I'd consider switching foods to see if that helps. If he was taken to a groomer to be clipped, ask what products they put on him. I've found I love the Isle of Dog line of shampoos...I can't remember exactly which one it was, but I know one of them worked very well on greasy coats when I was working for a handler.

You have Annie's jacket stripped very nicely! In my personal opinion, you can take more off of her legs/tail to give it less of that "fly away" look...that's dead/longer hair there. Head hair is typically not as harsh as the body coat and does take longer to grow back.

[kurtlaynevedder]

THanks for the advice! Ya I am having a hard time with her legs, they hair just isn't loose there and she doesn't like me tugging on it. I don't know what shampoo the groomer uses, but i use the biogroom harshcoat. Could that shampoo make him greasy. Also, I feed him Eagle Pack Holistic. Could that be a factor also?

[Sandi16]

Louie has very fine, thin hair on his head. I just gave up trying to get that rounded Cairn head.

[kintra]

Every dog is different when it comes to everything, including food and grooming practices. A friend's Cairn always had a greasy coat until she finally switched her to Pro Plan Selects (even though she'd previously been on Natural Balance and other higher grade foods). Certain shampoos also have different effects on different dogs. Have you talked with your vet and/or groomer about the greasy coat at all?

Zach isn't a huge fan of getting his leg hair done, but I do make him sit through it because I hate when the leg hairs get wispy/long.

[sanford]

Cairns are naturally odor free. I've read on this site that bathing/washing your Cairn too often can deplete the natural oils in your Cairn's skin. Without the oils, the coat gets dirty, then greasy, necessitating more washing and the cycle continues... (Some people, whose dogs have healthy, odor-free skin and coats only bathe their cairns once or twice a year).

Whenever you take your dog to the groomer, it's important to bring your own harsh coat shampoo for them to use. If they use the same shampoo that they use for other dogs, it can soften your Cairn's coat and deplete the healthy oils in the skin.

[kurtlaynevedder]

Some more pics have been added. More grooming criticisms would be awesome!

[Kramersmom]

No criticism here, I think they both are adorable. Neither are show dogs so why add chemicals or unnecessary things to there coats to fluff them up?? Kramer gets trimmed, no baths, his coat is Cairn 100% his markings are beautiful and his Dr said he has never seen a Cairns coat so good as Kramer's. I feel its from his diet.

Kramer's head hair is also a little softer just on the top. I say its softer on top of his head from me kissing it so much

[kintra]

Much like people, every dog is different. Some dogs needs baths more often than others and it has little to do with whether they're being shown or not.

I find the coat on my Cairn will get grimy feeling after awhile, depending on the weather outside, what he's gotten into, etc. no matter how often we brush him out and use listerene. He typically gets bathed depending on how often I'm home...at least once a month during the summers and once every few months in the winter. I keep Zach's coat in the length of a show trim even though he is retired...the longer the hair gets, typically the softer/ickier it will get and I personally do not like the "Cairn-going-soft" feel.

[kurtlaynevedder]

I am thinking that the over bathing could be the problem with my Westie's greasy coat. We never bathed him often because of fear of allergies. Recently his coat was long a dirty, so we gave him a bath. Shortly after that (about a week) we got him groomed. Then his hair got greasy for the first time a week later so we bathed him again. Now he is so greasy that his hair looks gelled. My sister said that maybe baby powder would work in removing the grease without bathing. She said that is what they do to human hair.

I really want Annie to look show quality despite her size. I know it may sound superficial, but i think that they are sooo cute in the ring and that is what initially drew me to the Cairn (trust me it wasn't the only factor in my decision so don't worry). If the chalks and other chemicals that are used for the show Cairns are harsh or dangerous, then of course I wouldn't want to put Annie through that. But if they aren't, then I don't see the problem.

What exaclty do the chalks do. Do they thicken the fur or just bring out the color. Also, what is the dry shampoo I've been hearing about. My mother always yells at me because Annie can stink sometimes and she says I should bathe her more often. I continually tell her that it isn't good for her skin and it will damage her dirt-guarding coat. I've bathed her about 3 or 4 times in her first year. I use the biogroom harsh coat, but if these dry shampoo's work better at protecting the coat and skin then I would prefer those.

[kintra]

I believe what was discussed earlier was groomer's chalk...which helps grip the hair while it is being stripped out.

Show chalk if often used to enhance color/can give the impression of more bone in white dogs. I have never heard of an instance where it was harmful to a dog (and heaven knows I've probably inhaled enough of it in grooming areas to last a lifetime).

It is possible to give the appearance of a show Cairn simply through grooming. Typically a show Cairn's coat is a lot shorter than a pet Cairn. When I was specialing Zach, I'd give the rough estimates that his body coat was 1 1/2 to 2 inches, leg hair was 1 inch, and head hair was about two inches long. If you'd like a more detailed regimen about our grooming routine, feel free to PM me.

I do use additional products when we're in the ring but that is simply to help it stay and in no way are the products harmful (in fact, 99% of what I use is made for humans). Just because my dogs are shown does not automatically mean that I make them endure harsh chemicals for the sake of 'beauty'. My dogs will always be pets first. We were at a point where Zach was being shown 40+ weekends a year and yes, he was getting weekly baths on a regular basis, yet he had a magnificent coat (and still does). During the week, his Isle of Dog harsh coat shampoo is the ONLY product that ever touches him.

I've tried baby powder/corn starch and dry shampoos on dogs before and it worked fine, but I much prefer Self Rinse. It's available from many places and is a deep purple liquid. I water it down quite a bit and spray it on the dogs....if it's at a show, I blow them out, otherwise at home I'll let them dry naturally.