Size Question

[Jeannie]

I am new to this forum--found it as I've been roaming the web this last week, looking for some comfort after the death of my Cairn Ethan, who was 15, the only dog I've ever had, my darling. I bought him as a puppy from Pat McKinney, who I see from these postings has also died. Since I may decide that I must have another dog some day, I'd like to ask: How much does a Cairn at the small end of the range weigh? During his healthy life, Ethan was about 22 pounds, on the big side, I think. Picking him up was hard on my creaky back. Are some Cairns much smaller?

Jeannie

[bradl]

Indeed they can. Our four dogs (three girls and one boy) are 12, 13, 14/15, and 18 lbs, respectively (depending on the time of year and current feeding level - they can carry an extra pound or two if we are inactive or overfeeding). Our male has never topped 19; Echo approached 16 at show weight, but once she finished we were able to back her down to a healthier weight.

Welcome, and sorry about losing Ethan. And Pat.

[Jessica H]

Sadie is a little peanut, she is about 13.5lbs and Scooter is on the larger side at 17.5lbs. Both are very trim and lean, they get a lot of exercise in the summer but not as much in winter so they may gain a little throughout winter but it comes off by late spring.

[Nikki]

Scotty is 22lbs but he's all muscle no fat...and angel is just a lil thing she's about 12lbs

[sheila and Misty]

sorry for your loss-It is rough! we all been there. Mistys a huge girl but only 3lbs overweight-she is 27lbs but Toby has been 15 and staying there the last two months-I dont think he will get a whole lot larger even if he does grow some.

[JerryLv]

This subject always kills me because I do believe I have the worlds heavest Cairn Terrier. Zen is NOT fat. When I take him to the vet they take one look at his weight and assume he is over weight. After an examination they always determine that he is not fat but very muscular. His size and weight bothered me for a long time. When I emailed his breeder about his size and weight she responded that it was because his father was a European Cairn which tends to be larger and heavier. ? At one point I even thought that maybe he wasn't pure bred but that can't be true because we have his registration papers. Anyway we eventually accepted his size and weight and come to enjoy it a lot. Zen is will be four years old on April 28 of this year. He hit 30 pounds at year two. He still weighes exactly the same. He gets 2 hours of good excersise each morning 24/7, 30 - 40 minutes each afternoon starting at 3PM (that's with me, the other is with the wife) and one hour each evening between 6 & 7 PM. He likes his food and

snacks but because of the excersise he gets he is not over weight. When we signed up for a Cairn we thought we would get a 14 pounder when he grew up. Ha!

[Sandi16]

Jerrylv... my sister has a Japanese Chin who weight TWENTY TWO lbs. Chins usually only get to be about 9 lbs. He is a monster. We tease that he is fat but, he honestly is not! He's just really, really big. We see it lie this. Even the Chinese have Yao Ming you know?

[SparkyJonesMom]

My Sparky weighs right at about 13.5 to 14 pounds. He's the perfect size for me. Not too big, not too small.

[Idaho Cairns]

We've had them all over the place! I had a female for years that was 16lbs. I had a rescue that was 28 lbs. Our four year old is a very solid 26lbs, tall and long. Our new dog is about 10lbs now at 24 weeks--she is going to be small. We have seen Cairns that range from tiny to large. I don't give in much thought so long as the Cairn personality is all there. I agree that picking up our 26 pounder is difficult sometimes but on the positive side, this dog is rugged as the dickens, can go anywhere for as long as you want to keep her out, she is probably about what Cairns looked like in the 19th century.

[Jeannie]

What a wonderful forum! So many responses so quickly. Thank you. I guess to be sure of getting a small Cairn I would need to get an adult, not a puppy. I am not by any means ready to make decisions about a new dog yet--don't know if I'd want a puppy or a grown dog, and I'm not even sure what breed, though it's my Ethan's face and personality I'm in love with. I will be gathering information for some time and will check in here as I do.

Thank you again,

Jeannie

[sheila and Misty]

This subject always kills me because I do believe I have the worlds heavest Cairn Terrier. Zen is NOT fat. When I take him to the vet they take one look at his weight and assume he is over weight. After an examination they always determine that he is not fat but very muscular. His size and weight bothered me for a long time. When I emailed his breeder about his size and weight she responded that it was because his father was a European Cairn which tends to be larger and heavier. ? At one point I even thought that maybe he wasn't pure bred but that can't be true because we have his registration papers. Anyway we eventually accepted his size and weight and come to enjoy it a lot. Zen is will be four years old on April 28 of this year. He hit 30 pounds at year two. He still weighes exactly the same. He gets 2 hours of good excersise each morning 24/7, 30 - 40 minutes each afternoon starting at 3PM (that's with me, the other is with the wife) and one hour each evening between 6 & 7 PM. He likes his food and

snacks but because of the excersise he gets he is not over weight. When we signed up for a Cairn we thought we would get a 14 pounder when he grew up. Ha!

same type of cairn here-nope yours is 7 lbs lighter than mine-but we knew she was going to be big.

[josie&holly]

Holly is 16lb at present - am told she need to be a bit lighter............... but I do not feel she is fat. She is of course a English Cairn, but here I have seen 12lb ones and also bigger than Holly so I just think the size can be variable.

As I carry her up and down stairs I would like her to be a bit lighter myself................. keep hoping she will start walking up herself! She slipped on some of the stairs when she first went up so now won't walk up!

[Cairnmania]

Jeannie,

If you want a puppy that is not too big all you need to do is find a reputable, experienced breeder. For me that means a member of the CTCA (sponsors this forum) as well as someone who has been breeding Cairns for a good number of years.

An experienced breeder will be able to give you a very good idea of which puppy is likely to end up smaller than average or bigger than average. There are always surprises, of course, but if you want a smaller dog you are very unlikely to end up with a very large dog if you let the breeder select for you.

The other route you can take is to contact breeders to ask if they have an older puppy available. Breeders that show dogs will keep one or two promising puppies back to see how they develop. Some turn out to be not exactly as the breeder hoped, but will make wonderful pets, and even if they are not fully grown they will have grown enough so the breeder knows if they will end up small or large.

I have two English Cairns, living in England as I do :-) The breeder felt Abby would be too small and too short on the leg when grown for English standards; but by the American standard she is absolutely fine. Abby's weight is 14 pounds, +/- half a pound. Rudi I got when he was 1-1/2 years old, he was a very handsome show dog who absolutely hated showing, so he ended up with me and a life of luxury :-). He is a bit large even by English standards, and at the moment I believe he is roughly 18, +/- half a pound. Neither will stand still on the scales, so whatever weight shows up twice as the numbers change is usually what gets recorded. :-) Both of my dogs are trim and at a healthy weight - and speaking for them - both would like to put on a couple of pounds!!!! Eating is their favorite hobby.

[wellygoggles]

4 yo Fergus is 12.4 kgs of solid muscle. He pulls me up hills! He's very long and even though he has registration papers, I'm sure there's a sausage dog somehwere in his lineage. Hey but you get tall people and short people, so why not the same in Cairns!

[pkcrossley]

a lot of cairns (mostly male?) weigh in at 22 lbs, which is about twice what the smaller cairns weigh. i'm pleased that cairns have this kind of variety. my dog's weight roams between about 19 and 22 lbs over the year --he's heavier in winter, lighter in summer. i have also heard this thing about "european" (or "british") cairns being bigger. i mean, my dog isn't from britain. but a few cairn fanciers who's seen him have thrown out the "big british" theme. is that an urban legend, life "big-boned," or is there something to it?

[bradl]

Standards compared. UK/FCI standard calls for 11-12" height, no distinction bitch/dog, weight in proportion, ideally 14-16 lbs. US standard calls for 9.5" bitch and 10" dog at 13 and 14 lbs respectively.

A topic of apparently eternal debate within the fancy (and source of many topics on CTF over the years).

[Jeannie]

<<< The other route you can take is to contact breeders to ask if they have an older puppy available. Breeders that show dogs will keep one or two promising puppies back to see how they develop. Some turn out to be not exactly as the breeder hoped, but will make wonderful pets, and even if they are not fully grown they will have grown enough so the breeder knows if they will end up small or large. >>>

Thank you, Cairnmania, for this advice (can't figure out how to make the quote thing work). In fact, Ethan would have been a show dog except that he had an undescended testicle and slightly crooked teeth--lucky for me. I got him at four months. An older puppy would be best for my situation, I think. There would be more clues to personality then, too.

Another question: I didn't strip Ethan's coat but had him groomed like a Westie. I liked the soft coat. Is there any truth to the idea that not stripping is bad for the dog's skin? He did have skin problems.

Jeannie

[bradl]

Here are loads of past topics where the benefits of stripping in relation to skin health come up:

Google: stripping skin health site:cairnterrier.org

[wellygoggles]

I'm not too sure about the term "breed standard" anymore after watching a British tv documentary last night about how pedigree dogs had been bred to such a degree to produce mutant show dogs. Apparently inbreeding is dreadful in the UK (I dread to think what it is like in a small country like New Zealand) and only last year did the UK Kennel Club decide that father/daughter and brother/sister mating was not permissable. The programme showed how various pedigree dogs looked 100 years ago compared to how the breed standard expected them to look now. The differences were amazing. Unfortunately they did not show a Cairn, but I can't recall when they were registered with the Kennel Club as a breed - probably the beginning of the last century.

Another sad thing the programme brought to light was that some breeders euthanised puppies which would not be suitable as show dogs as they didn't meet the breed standard. I always thought they were sold as family pets!

OK so Fergus is long for a Cairn and heavy (12.5kgs) and obviously doesn't meet the breed standard, but hey, we love him to bits and wouldn't want him any other way.

Welly

[krazykrissy79]

my female is at 13.5lbs right now my male is 16lbs

[Holly_go_lighlty]

Our Murphy is 10 months old and is weighing in these days about 15.5 lbs.

[josie&holly]

I'm not too sure about the term "breed standard" anymore after watching a British tv documentary last night about how pedigree dogs had been bred to such a degree to produce mutant show dogs. Apparently inbreeding is dreadful in the UK (I dread to think what it is like in a small country like New Zealand) and only last year did the UK Kennel Club decide that father/daughter and brother/sister mating was not permissable. The programme showed how various pedigree dogs looked 100 years ago compared to how the breed standard expected them to look now. The differences were amazing.

Welly

That programme resulted in BBC not showing Crufts this year as the Kennel Club felt aggrieved by the film..........................

I do not think size matters as long as not overweight if the dog s a pet rather than show.

[Cairnmania]

I'm not too sure about the term "breed standard" anymore after watching a British tv documentary last night about how pedigree dogs had been bred to such a degree to produce mutant show dogs. Apparently inbreeding is dreadful in the UK (I dread to think what it is like in a small country like New Zealand) and only last year did the UK Kennel Club decide that father/daughter and brother/sister mating was not permissable. The programme showed how various pedigree dogs looked 100 years ago compared to how the breed standard expected them to look now. The differences were amazing. Unfortunately they did not show a Cairn, but I can't recall when they were registered with the Kennel Club as a breed - probably the beginning of the last century.

Another sad thing the programme brought to light was that some breeders euthanised puppies which would not be suitable as show dogs as they didn't meet the breed standard. I always thought they were sold as family pets!

OK so Fergus is long for a Cairn and heavy (12.5kgs) and obviously doesn't meet the breed standard, but hey, we love him to bits and wouldn't want him any other way.

Welly

You have to take that program with a LARGE grain of salt; it was produced specifically to upset and cause a sensation. Therefore, what the producer did is select only the horror stories and spent no time talking about anything positive at all. The producer frequented UK-based do web sites and she really was fishing for dirt; in fact, trying to instigate it. Unfortunately, she got the reaction she wanted from the general public and media.

Dogs in the UK are no more inbred than they are anywhere else in the world.

That said, there are certain breeds which at least IMO where cosmetic appearance has taken precedence over health. I think it is justifiable that those type of situations are highlighted. And there are breeds where there are very distinct differences between show dogs and other dogs of the same breed. German Shepherds, for example, in the UK and in the US the confirmation GSD looks very different from dogs bred specifically for obedience or schuzhund (?) .. and then you have Shiloh Shepherds, and white German shepherds ... and the list goes on and on. And unfortunately, it is a breed which these days has a large number of health and temperament problems which I am sure exist to the extent they do because of breeding for a specific type versus overall temperament, structure and health.

... end of rant!

[hallswel]

I have both size cairns and they all are healthy and have good temperments. The picture represents three different breeding programs. The first two are Paint and Duncan...my breeding they are 8 months old both weigh 13.5 lbs so they will get a little bigger, Duncan will end up bigger than Paint because he is a skinny boy right now. Then you have Harry who is a 14 lb male at almost 2 years old and Sugar who weighs anywhere between 13.5 to 15 lbs she gets overweight quickly. Sugar and Harry were bred by the same breeder. Then you have my Rebel who weighs 22 lb and is 6 years old. I love them all! All are balanced have nice coats and good temperment and move well. Harley was the mother to the pups and she weighed 14 lbs.

I think my next breeding will be Sugar and Harry. I should get pups close to the same size as the parents although Harry's sire is 18 lbs and on the large size and Sugar's grandsire was 19 lbs so it is possible for the pups to be a bit bigger. Most importantly I should get healtly, well balance, good temperment Cairns.

This picture was taken after two days of constant rain so they are a mess but it does illustrate the size well.

PS our pug is the same height as Duncan but he weighs 19 lbs and he is hard to pick up because he is so compact!

I guess what I am saying... regardless the size I think healty good tempered Cairns are what we want. I love all of my babies.

[jodi0553]

Liz...your dogs looking "a mess" look better than my dog right after grooming! ACK, they are adorable!

Now back to the question...I wanted to mention that you can't always judge by the puppy size, either. Currey was the moose of his litter. He was the big one who crawled in the food bowl and ate it all and fell asleep on top of the rest of the food! At 6 months he was about 14 lbs while the breeder told me two of the little girls she had heard about were 8 and 9 lbs. As an adult, he's about 16 lbs. He is a light eater and pretty svelte. But...based on his size as a puppy and the fact that his sire was 18+ lbs, we thought he'd grow up to be a behemoth!