how did this breeder know?

[iRusty00]

my mom and i are looking for breeders because we want another cairn pup. as you can tell by my avatar rusty is "wheaten" i guess. well we're looking for a pup the same color as him. (when we got rusty, he had a little black hair over the wheaten color but after his first grooming it was gone ) anyway my mom called a breeder today and she when my mom said we have a wheaten one she said "oh, you must have got him from a pet shop then" we were shocked! how did she know. [we know not to buy from a pet shop anymore because i learned of puppy mills after we got him, so don't worry about that]. why does that color cairn have to come from a pet shop?i'm sad now because what if nobody breeds that color?? will we be able to find someone?

here is a picture of rusty as a puppy just in case i didn't explain it well

[DawnandTuk-tuk]

Oh my gosh! I've never heard that before! Tuk-tuk had little black tips all over before his first grooming too. We also got him from a pet store, but it's one that has been here in AZ forever family owned and all that, a little hole-in-the-wall place not the mall ones. I was unable to find any breeders anywhere in AZ who had litters, or were going to have litters and all the CA breeders were very expensive cause they were all show dogs. I kept getting told that there was a breeding problem with Cairns at the time and that puppies were hard to come by both here and in CA. I was interested in a wheaton puppy cause I was afraid a dark colored dog would be miserable here in our heat. But lots of people on this forum have wheaton cairns, it can't be a pet shop thing, that would be very strange.

I've read that cairns can change color kinda spontaneouly at any time in their lives. There are certain colors where you are more likely to get certain colored pups but there is never any guarantee. It's part of their charm!

[iRusty00]

maybe she's just psychic

[Jessica H]

Scooter is a red wheaten and when he was a puppy he had ALOT of black all over. I got him from a breeder so I am not sure what that breeder is talking about.

Here is Scooter when he was a puppy...

[Idaho Cairns]

I have two wheaten dogs, both from breeders. So far as I know there is no reason why a wheaten Cairn has to have come from a puppy mill.

I do think that hobby and professional breeders do try to selectively breed for darker puppies, knowing that blacks and blue gray dogs are more sought after. At least I think they are more sought after. We prefer wheaten Cairns--don't know why--for us they fit the eye better.

[iRusty00]

yes i (we) prefer wheaten too. wow scooter was dark!!

[Greg P]

Never pick a puppy for color!

Kona before:

Wheaton with black tips

Kona now:

Gets blacker every day!

Cairn breeders who breed selectively for color are frustrated breeders, indeed!

[Greg P]

Never pick a puppy for color, Part 2:

Our precious baby Kula

And Kula now:

Her coloring went from dark to platinum!

[iRusty00]

wow greg p thats a huge change!!

[jodi0553]

Kula's color change is striking! I've seen many pics of light brindles going dark like Kona, but Kula's current color doesn't seem to have any brindle to it at all from those photos. How many years were between the "before" and "after" for Kula and Kona?

Last fall we moved to a new neighborhood and frequently ran into a neighbor with a puggle puppy. At the time we moved in, Currey and the puggle were the same color. Fast forward a couple months...I didn't run into the wife walking the pup in the daylight for the duration of the winter. In the spring, we ran into her, and she said to me, "um, I thought I remembered your dog being a different color", she thought she was losing her mind! Of course she thought I was really weird when I explained that he could change colors through his life!

[iRusty00]

i didn't know cairns could change colors.

[Greg P]

Kula's color change is striking! I've seen many pics of light brindles going dark like Kona, but Kula's current color doesn't seem to have any brindle to it at all from those photos. How many years were between the "before" and "after" for Kula and Kona?

By the time Kula was a year old she was pretty much platinum. She has a few coarse brindle grey hairs on her ears and down her back. Her coat down her back has some coarseness to it, but her coat on her head, belly and legs are a uniform platinum color and is soft, soft, soft. She was our first cairn. We bought her from a "back yard" breeder. While we wouldn't trade Kula for anything, we're wiser now about the world of dog breeding. Kula has a remarkable personality and has always been Val's heart dog.

Kona is 13 months in the first photo and turned 4 years old this January (2nd photo was taken in December when he finished his Canadian championship). He started turning dark rapidly at 18 months. Funny, it's hard now to even remember him as a wheaton! (...and I'd have to admit Kona is my heart dog)

BTW, for those who "think" the price of a well bred cairn is too much....... the overall "cost" of a poorly bred cairn can be much, much more.

[iRusty00]

oh yeah, another question;

has anyone dealt with the breeders listed on this site? is the list updated every now and then so we can find good sources?

[bradl]

I've met a few of them

The breeders listed on the CTCA Find Breeders page are all members of the Cairn Terrier Club of America. The list is updated each year, and any time a member asks to be either listed or de-listed.

Some breeders ask to be listed only while they have a litter, and ask to be de-listed when they don't, as they prefer not to get a lot of calls. Others may be retired or not actively breeding, but do take calls for reasons of breed education and also to help put good families in touch with other breeders that we know personally and can vouch for.

Breeders who are active in their breed tend to see each other regularly at meetings, shows and events, and often know who has a litter, who's planning one, who has a rescue, etc. Sometimes they'll even share that information :ninja: More importantly, CTCA members have a code of ethics.

My stomach churns at some of the so-called breeders I see buying advertising on the web. I'd stick with the CTCA breeders and breeders that you may get referred to by the breeder referral person at the regional affiliated clubs, to the extent possible. For example, I once went to Colorado from Oregon to get a puppy from a breeder I liked.

[iRusty00]

if it were me buying the puppy, i would travel to another state. but its my parents so they are not going far. my mom e-mail some people yesterday 1 replied-no pups or any in the near future she called one person today which is the one i asked about in this question.

[rileyboy]

Greg, are you sure you did not get their puppy pictures confused? Ha, I am just kidding! I know cairns change colors I just am so shocked to see the difference in BOTH your pups! That was probably fun watching the transformation.

[pkcrossley]

greg's puppies are adorable!

as for the breeder, i suppose she was playing off the fact that most pet shop cairns are light colored (i think most are really red brindles, but a lot of pale red brindles get called "wheaten"). dark colors, whether gray or dark red, are not nearly so common, and i would guess that most of the dark ones come from breeders. it can't be right to say that all true wheatens or red brindles come from pet shops, but i do think that the vast majority of puppy mills pups are light, and most or all dark dogs are from breeders. she was just playing the odds.

[josie&holly]

I thought the colour changes in greg p's 2 gorgeous dogs is amazing but have heard of this before.

My friend has 4 Cairns that are 4 generations - the eldest is is grey brindle but her daughter is wheaton, and then her daugther is red brindle, and then her daughter is grey brindle. However the wheaton one was kept because she was brindle when a puppy and the other 3 were light - so she changed too.

[sheila and Misty]

never heard that one before either-but seeing cairns on the tv dog shows I never did see a wheaton -they always looked like toto or a bit darker-My guess is that the wheatons seem to get larger than breed standard for the most part.

look at the changes in Misty up to my aatar now. when we got her my breeder knew she would be light. wouldnt have a clue looking at her puppy pics,

[Tracy A.]

Greg, when they post pictures of major color changes... I must say that is Major! and so quickly too!

iRusty- A good breeder knows who else is breeding that specific dog breed in the area from attending shows and and seeing the other breeders. It could be that she knows that all the other Cairn Breeders in the area aren't producing any a Wheaten Cairns...

Or maybe it was just a lucky guess.

[cairnsby3]

I don't know where that breeder came up with that, both my wheatons came from breeders, they have both been the same color since I got them, one was about 8 hours away, the other 11. Their parents are champions and most of the grandparents are champions, 2 of Shiner's littermates are champions. Why anyone would make that statement, I don't know.

[mjones]

oh yeah, another question;

has anyone dealt with the breeders listed on this site?

I got Gus from a breeder that was listed on the CTCA breeder referral list. I contacted a few breeders listed. They were all very helpful and friendly. I used the ones that didn't have puppys available to give me their opinion of the breeder that I got Gus from. They all seemed to know each other.

BTW, for those who "think" the price of a well bred cairn is too much....... the overall "cost" of a poorly bred cairn can be much, much more.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I totally agree. I paid quite a bit for Gus, but his temperment just amazes me. He has some issues, but mostly he is an incredibly good dog. The breeder I got him from only has one litter every couple years and her main goal is to breed a dog with a good temperment. I feel very fortunate to have gotten a dog from such a good breeder. Of course, a rescue is a whole different story, but that wasn't really an option for us becuase of my small children.

As for color, my breeder sent me a picture of Gus's mom and she was a wheaton color. When I got to her house this black Cairn came running up to me, and she told me that was Gus's mom. I was shocked, and to be honest, I wasn't even sure I believed her. I know better now.

[Greg P]

oh yeah, another question;

has anyone dealt with the breeders listed on this site?

As for color, my breeder sent me a picture of Gus's mom and she was a wheaton color. When I got to her house this black Cairn came running up to me, and she told me that was Gus's mom. I was shocked, and to be honest, I wasn't even sure I believed her. I know better now.

Gus's mama is Kona's sister. Brother and sister's color mirrored each other as they were growing up. Gus's sire was also quite wheaton as a youngster, but is now a remarkable reddish/brown color. Most likely Gus will darken as he ages.

When we were showing Hattie, she was a reddish, wheaton brindle. Her face now is jet black and her body color now is an almost uniform dark, charcoal gray with a silver streak around her neck. She looks kinda regal -- like she's wearing an Elizabethan collar.

As cainsby3 said, some wheatons do not change. Some great lines have predominately wheaton dogs.

The important thing to understand is that Cairns can change color in remarkable ways in their lives I've seen examples of Cairns changing light to dark to light. Pick a good puppy, but don't pick it based on color. You just never know! It's one of those things that make Cairns incredibly interesting!

[hallswel]

Here are my three pups a brindle, a red wheaten and a brindle wheaten....

All from the same litter all different colors and I know Paint and Duncan will someday be dark and look alot alike

Duncan is in the solo pick he will be dark one day!

[Kramersmom]

This is really interesting. Missy was a beautiful, all black Cairn terrier. In all her 17 years she never changed color except, the little Grey around the eyes and muzzle due to aging. and............she was from a horrible pet store. Her coloring was beautiful, her coat was always like a show girl but due to puppy mill her health issues were horrible. Now, Kramer his markings are beautiful as well. He has the black ear tips and black around the muzzle area, so far he is 4 and healthy as an ox but he is from a reputable breeder here in Illinois.

This is Missy when she was around 3

Kramer