House Breaking issues

[Nurse91682]

Hi! My husband and I adopted a cairn terrier from a rescue this last May. She had been abandoned outside of a humane shelter and was believed to be about 6 months old when we adopted her. We have tried crate training ( we crate her at night) to house break her but she will urinate and occasionally poop in her crate. We feed her one time a day and usually take up her water about an hour before we crate her. We have her confined to our back bedroom when we are unable to directly supervise her (she has plenty of accidents in there too regardless of how many times we take her out). Pretty much every time we let her run around in the living room she will jump up on our couch or loveseat and urinate even though we had just taken her outside. We love this little doggy but we are afraid that she is never going to learn. We even left her with a dog trainer for a week when we had to be out of town. The dog trainer told us she just thinks our cairn is a submission wetter. We don't know what to do. A few people have said they think she was probably from a puppy mill and will never grow out of this behavior. We scold her, we clean the mess up with cleaning supplies specifically for animal urine/feces. Any other suggestions? What could we be doing wrong? Thanks in advance for whatever advice you may have!!

[catndog]

ok so i have my share of compliants about my cairn so that is to say im no expert and im definety not a happy mommy. i think if the crate is too big or the bed is too soft, they will soil it. are you using the proper cleaner? because if they smell their urine they will pee in the same spot. check for signs like if she is sniffing the ground in a circular motion take her out and give her a treat if she uses the potty correctly. cairns are smart she'll catch on and consider spaying her. ive heard this helps too with housebreaking.

[sheila and Misty]

you didnt say the age of the dog- maybe your crateing too long without potty breaks -"experts claim no longer than 1 hour per month of dog maximum ! if its an older dog make sure the last thing before crateing is outside and wait till they do that last pee or poo. and if it only happens occasionally- didnt you ever have to go in the middle of the night? ahhh it happens.

[sheila and Misty]

sorry you did mention 6 months -so no more than 6 hour that means if in bed at 9 have to go out at 3am its like that for awahile just know every month is one more hour later -(it goes fast)

[Otis'dad]

Greetings,

Before reading through the forum I was worried about Otis. Otis is about 13 weeks. I had him for 4 weeks and he pees constantly--I let him outside and he pees, when he comes back in he pees on the floor, was playing with him on the couch and he started to pee. He doesn't pee in his crate (a good thing). A friend at work has two cairn--she said the best way was to try confinement--but that seems too mean. Checked online today and found this forum and other sites. On one of the other sites, it said to confined them when you cannot be with all the time. Confinement could be crate, a pen, or a small room. and to let them out every three hours--it seems harsh, but with new carpet, it is so aggrevating to be cleaning up pee spots--I have a Mini Dashchund now and westie before--but nothing had prepared me for how hard it is to housebreak Otis--He is lucky he is so cute...

[Nurse91682]

She was believed to be around 6 months old when we adopted her so she is around 13 months old now. She was spayed at the vet's office that was holding her until she was adopted. This may seem like a weird question, but how many times a day is normal for a cairn to poop? She seems to go between 4 & 6 times a day, also she has loose diarrhea type stools a couple times a week. We feed her Natural Balance Lamb and Rice formula for sensitive stomachs. Could she possibly have an intestinal infection/problem? Thanks for all of your advice so far!!

[sheila and Misty]

normally around every 4hours mine went up to six little tootsierolls a day untill they were six mo then about 3- is where Tobys at right now a little over six mo. Mist goes 2x a day usually now-as far as loose boil some chicken breast meat and white rice -feed that once in a while -usually works pretty quick to firm the stools if it continues try switching foods -if its every time tell the vet they dehydrate quickly.

[jimnconnie]

If you're crating your little girl, make sure she doesn't have too much room in the crate. She should only have enough room to stand, turn around, and lie down. If she only has this much room, she most likely will not soil the crate. She isn't ready for freedom in the house, so you'll have to keep her where you can observe what she is doing at all times, and put her in the crate when you can't. You can use a portable exercise pen to confine her where you can watch her, or some people even tether their puppy to themselves with a leash. Watch her for signs that she needs to go potty. Sniffing, circling, whining, are all indicators that she is looking for a place to go potty. When you see one of these signs, take her outside. If you see her starting to go potty, tell her "NO" and take her outside to finish, then praise & treat her for going outside. If you discover, after the fact, that she has gone potty in the house, don't scold her because she won't know why you are yelling at her. If you just put her in another room and close the door, she will poop or pee in there whenever she has the urge. She needs to go outside as soon as she gets up in the a.m., after meals, after naps, after play sessions, and right before bedtime. If you take her out to go and she doesn't, put her in the crate for 30 minutes then take her out again. If she still doesn't go, back into the crate for another 30 mins. Keep up that routine until she successfully goes outdoor, and then praise her lavishly, and give her a treat. Always take her to the same place outdoors to go potty, as she will soon identify the smells in that area as where she is supposed to do her duty. If you're only feeding her once a day, at what time is that? Eating too late may cause some of her elimination problem in the crate overnight. Some people may feed only once, but I think that for the first year, at least, your dog should get two smaller meals. Even if she is a puppy mill dog, she can be house-trained, it may just take more time and more patience on your part. Submissive urination may explain why she wets on the couch when you play with her, but it doesn't explain all the other incidents. Those are just a matter of training. Good Luck, and bless you and your husband for taking Lucy into your home.

[shellj2323]

She seems to go between 4 & 6 times a day, also she has loose diarrhea type stools a couple times a week. We feed her Natural Balance Lamb and Rice formula for sensitive stomachs. Could she possibly have an intestinal infection/problem?

I'm no expert, but I think that is too often. I would get her to the vet for a fecal test (and test for UTI as well). When we got Angus he problems for months due to parasites, then had intestinal distress and soft poop even after treatment. We had to search for the best food for him. Some dog food might be perfectly good, but just doesn't agree with the individual dog.

Good luck and bless you for adopting her!

[pkcrossley]

submission wetting, which is a specific problem, is something that is discussed here a lot. i don't recall off the top of my head how many people have reported complete success with it, but i think many have reported distinct improvement. it seems that a key is not so much focussing on the peeing itself but on the whole attitude of the dog, since there will be other submissive behaviors as well (rolling over on the back when seeing people, crouching, etc). i have a vague impression that it is a little more frequent with females than with males, but there are certainly many stories here of submission wetting by males, too. sometimes the dog is more submissive to one person in the household (usually a man) than to others, and will exhibit the behavior in front of that person but not necessarily others.

it is strange that a trainer would diagnose the problem but not make any suggestions, since this is a behavior issue and is probably amenable to various kinds of treatment. the overall confidence of the dog is crucial. since this dog has been with you since may, it seems that she should be getting more confident now, unless there are some specific angles that you haven't noticed and so have not been working on. with cairns there is the added dimension that if there is ANY advantage in the behavior they will catch on to it quickly. if she thinks she is pleasing somebody with submissive behaviors generally (like if you think it is cute that she rolls over on her back on her own, or if you reward her some way for crouching and rolling her eyes and so), she may generalize it to all submissive behaviors and not be able to figure out why you like some and not others.

until you figure it out (which i believe you can), i would recommend taking pressure off yourself by setting up a safe room for her to be in when she is unsupervised --a bathroom or laundry room, where she won't be actually confined but she can't do much harm, either. give something to sleep on to be comfortable, and make sure she has water.

i noticed in your account that you mentioned taking her water away at night. i understand the logic, but going thirsty for hours at a time can aggravate problems like this because it can contribute to urinary tract infections (which may be related to what looks like undisciplined or uncontrolled peeing). unless your dog is drinking more than necessary because of anxiety or a medical problem, leaving her water where she can get it should not tempt her to drink so much that she pees as much as you are describing. i would suggest checking her for UTI and is she is clear let her have access to water as she likes.

[jimnconnie]

This may seem like a weird question, but how many times a day is normal for a cairn to poop? She seems to go between 4 & 6 times a day, also she has loose diarrhea type stools a couple times a week. We feed her Natural Balance Lamb and Rice formula for sensitive stomachs. Could she possibly have an intestinal infection/problem? Thanks for all of your advice so far!!

Loose stools could also indicate that she doesn't have enough fiber in her diet. We've found that adding a tablespoon or so of canned pumpkin (plain pumpkin, with no spices or additives) to our dogs' food once a day helps to maintain firm stools. Both of our dog usually go 3 times a day.

[sunvalleylaw]

Glad to find this thread. Will just put my question here. We just adopted a +/- 6 month old cairn mix from a shelter as well.  I thought she was pretty good, but it turns out she is peeing sometimes in our first floor located bedroom.  She sleeps there in a crate.  A larger crate as we have always had larger dogs.  She does not soil the crate and does well there for the night.  She does sleep 6-7 hours but then asks to go out.  So she is getting it.  But as I said, some remaining peeing issues.  I am going to cut off access to that room during the day (shut the door), and work on the other basic training, and make sure we have the pee spots that have occurred cleaned thoroughly including any remaining odor, and just stick with it.  Good to know about the 6 hour night time crate rule.  She has been doing about that as we said, but good to know not to push her to hold it any longer, for sleeping in on Sunday or anything.   We also have a free wellness check with our regular vet that we will schedule this week, and we can get the possibility of infection ruled out or addressed if present.  Any other thoughts, please feel free to share.  

[Sam I Am]

Glad you are going to check to make sure she doesn't have a UTI.  If all checks out I suspects it's just a bit of persistence and patients. Who knows what happened in her previous life. Perhaps no one took the time and that's why she landed up in a rescue site. So happy for her  you Adopted her.

[Hillscreek]

I might be inclined to start over with house training like she was a young pup. Don't wait till she asks to go out. Take her out every half hour on leash to the same area and when she does her business praise enthusiastically (no treat - she'll learn to only go when there's a treat). Then every hour and so on. Keep her confined inside the house either in a xpen or on leash beside/tied to you or in a gated area. As TL says who knows what her past has been. She's starting a new life with you. She just needs confidence and to be sure what all the house rules are.

I think you are doing good. She will learn to relax and feel safe. Takes time.

[sanford]

2 hours ago, Hillscreek said:

I think you are doing good. She will learn to relax and feel safe. Takes time.

She entered the shelter, then went from it to your home, had to adjust to you, your home, etc. She's very young and these are major life changes for her. Figuring it all out and making the adjustments takes time. Limiting her access to some of the house during this time as you are doing, is a good idea.

In my estimation, it sounds like she's doing very well, and perhaps even better than most! Keep us posted with her progress!

Edited June 6, 2016 by sanford

[hheldorfer]

I agree with Sanford.  I think Macy is coming along fine.  The wellness check will answer your questions as to whether or not there is anything physical going on; if not, just keep doing what you're doing.  She will get it eventually.