Do we have a "snarky" reputation?

[Greg P]

For anybody who has participated in earthdog, you know that there's a few moments of action and a lot of down time. During this down time I generally chat with the other earthdogger's from the other terrier breeds (and dachshunds). The reason why I bring this up is because I've engaged in three separate conversations in the last month with breeders who also show in conformation who brought up to me how "snarky" cairn terriers are becoming around the show ring.

I have to admit, I have observed some "snarky" behavior. I've seen males lunge at each other or create quite a ruckus in their crates as other dogs pass. Last summer, my dog was bitten ringside while I was carrying him (dog lunged from below).

One long time terrier breeder who currently shows Norwich said it's now like watching the Scotties. (Full disclaimer -- This may be undeserved criticism of scotties -- I don't really watch them.) She was actually interested in cairns, but was turned off by their behavior.

Again, I starated thinking seriously about this after 3 unsolicited conversations. Is this idle breed gossip at earthdog? Or should we be more concerned with the behavior of our cairns at ringside because the criticism is warranted?

[eastofeden]

MMMMM Greg intesting question.

I know that my first reaction when I heard that I would soon "inherit" (long story.....but not my breed of choice) a cairn was "nasty little dogs". Of course now I can not imagine not having one. That reaction was based on reputation only...as at the time I'd never really met one.

I have observed what you describe in the ring and it sounded like a whole pack of Tasmanian Devils where in the ring. Most of the cairns I know personally are verry even tempered. Of course the cairn people I know also have a focus on obed work etc and will not let their cairn get away w/snarky behavior.

Okay that said...my girl will raise a ruckus if she is crated and another dog comes up and gets in her grill so to speak. Walk by..np. Stand near....np But stick nose in to sniff etc...she tells that dog off in no uncertain terms. I tend to correct & then feel bad as it was an invasion of her space.

Now for the ST comparison. I have seen a ST snark at the handler (a young dog at that)...which I have not seen a cairn do in the ring. The handler just kinda ignored it...but those of us watching were horrified.

I think most of poor behavior is handler based and we must be vigilant to ensure that we do not encourage poor behavior. Nor should we breed it either. I do think we have a bit of a reputation which is sad because for the most part cairns are great dogs. But we also have many ambassadors out there w/super dogs to overcome this bad rap.

[boats85]

Even though Skipper did not do well in his first earthdog event, I am pleased to say that he was a very good ambassador for the Carin Terrier. While strolling through the grounds Skipper did great on heeling, do not bark, was very friendly with all that encountered him. I took Skipper to the briefing and he sat very quietly, and it seemed that he was listening to briefing very intently. There were 5 other Cairns who behaved as well. Cannot say the same for the rest of the participants

[cairnsby3]

I have sometimes seen it and I always wonder if it's the line or the handlers? But I think most of the dogs standing around the show ring are well-behaved.

[Greg P]

I agree with East of Eden in that the cairns I see involved in most any performance events are well behaved.

I also agree with Linda that by and large most cairns ARE well behaved. I do see see some issues within "lines".

I wonder how many incidents create a "reputation". Is this something that should occasionally be discussed within the various cairn terrier clubs?

Or not really a big deal?

[shergry]

I agree there needs to be something discussed within the clubs. Have been to many shows and heard someone say a "snarly" comment about my guys that were just walking by to go to the ring.

Also, was told never to be set up near the poodle section...are you kidding me? I said, I love to be near them...they are the most talkative people. Had a lot of funny and great stories. I don't mind being set up next to anyone..in other words I love variety.

At Earth Dog, there again is the outdoors and everyone is usually up early and the dogs are happy about the cool weather and the smell of vermin. So I have to admit mine get a little excited...I do try and get them to calm down. When the person who is suppose to be in control of the yappy one, etc is ignoring the loud situation...this can lead to the bad reputation.

As for the general public...I try to tell people how these guys are....it becomes pretty hard when they are charging at my 3 with their one yelling "He/She won't bite." Well, mine look at the charging one as a problem....and not matter how nice I try to be they take offense that mine were barking.

If someone can come up with maybe a general article to be posted (in the newspaper) when shows are going on, about the terriers and how they are as a breed? Just a thought...a long, long, time ago a newspaper reporter came to me and I was able to tell about the cairns...seemed to generate people to come look and really decide if we had "snarly" or not dogs.

[bradl]

Our neighborhood vet seemed so pleasantly surprised at the temperament of our first Cairn that I was sort of retroactively insulted when I got home and thought about it for a minute. Clearly his experience with Cairns to that point had not been very positive.

When I first started at shows I was surprised to see people talking a step backward, clutching their dog, or muttering to each other, "Look out - Cairns coming." Subjectively, that seems to happen less these days, although it still does occasionally. Sometimes it may even be deserved.

Even foul-tempered dogs do not have to cause a problem, if their owners are clueful. Even well-tempered dogs can cause a problem if their owners are not.

Shergry - you hit on one of my pet peeves. A lot of earthdog judges are rightly concerned that bracemates be able to work peacably together. Unfortunately some owners take that to mean the dogs are supposed to 'meet' each other first - where 'meet' means to them a face-to-face staredown, leashed. That's practically a recipe for snark. The same goes for meeting dogs on the street.

The dogs aren't going to shake hands and comment on the weather! Dogs meet politely from the side, for the most part. If my bracemate and I have stood next to each other and exchanged pleasantries for a moment or two, I am quite confident the dogs have already 'met' without any help from us! Even though they are excited, they want to hunt. Taking that energy and turning it into a faceoff is more than even a polite dog should have to bear. Now if one dog is busily trying to get past the handler to jump the other dog ... well, I'd treat my entry that day as a donation.

[hallswel]

When we decided to get Hammurabi our pug the breeder actually called my vet to see if Rebel was mean. She felt Cairns had a terrible reputation. My vet just laughed and told her that she worried more about the pug being the ill behaved dog. Now at dog shows we visit, I almost always have a Cairn in tow watching on of Hammarubi's siblings and Valerie has learned how sweet they are.

I was really quite surprised at show when a very nice lady from Denmark asked if I would hold her dogs lead....she warned me not to let him near any other dog/bitch. I learned quickly why, I think if I hadn't been warned there would have been a fight at least on his part. He was such a beautiful Cairn but she told me she has to keep him sperate because he would hurt another dog. None of my crew is like that at the shows, home or work so I was very surprised. I think it might be how they are raised or maybe it is in some of in the hard wiring of the brain, who knows.....

Now Dirty Harry likes to bark at dog shows and only at the big dogs. He wags his tail and wants to play. I have to keep a spray bottle with water handy or he gets loud. He does not want to fight just play but I am afraid as he gets older that could change so I want to stop the behavior now. He is my first intact male so I am learning to watch my feet because when another dog is close he will pee on my foot. We are working on that... behavior. Some people told me he is just claiming me but I don't like it so he had to learn not to do it.

Are there snarly Cairns, yes but I think that is true in all breeds.

[Cairnmania]

Snarly males are common in every breed when they are intact and in the vicinity of bitches - some of whom may well be in about to be, already in, or just finished with a season.

In confirmation shows I detest the practice of a "face offs" - if you ask me all that does is insure that the judge puts up the dog that is most likely to be snarly. I don't see that anywhere in the breed standard!

[bradl]

Problem with sparring is sometimes the judge is careless or gives bad instructions, or handlers aren't paying attention, don't have a good rapport with their dog, let the dogs get too close, one or more dogs has a bad temperament, etc. Rewarding a wild dog is as bad as rewarding one who shrinks away.

I didn't really get sparring until I finally saw it done the way I suspect it was originally intended to be. It was honestly beautiful. Two exquisite dogs quietly planted themselves squarely and raised themselves up on their toes, virtually vibrating with alert, engaged Cairn energy. It was the very embodiment of standing your ground. Those dogs did not launch into fear-aggressive attacking or ill-tempered snarling - they did nothing but say with posture and attitude, "This ground is mine" in the clearest possible terms, without so much as lifting a paw. For something that was essentially silent and almost motionless, I can't describe how affecting it was - in a good way.

I will say the dogs were excellent, supremely solid specials and the breeder-handlers were very experienced. I agree that sparring goes wrong (or is simply pointless) probably more often than it goes right.

[Cairnmania]

Brad,

I suppose my impression of sparring is colored by the fact that when I've seen it done the judge has almost always put up the dog that needed to be held back by the handler to keep him from going for another.

Most of the time the dogs do look great and there are a lot of wagging tails - but some of the handlers IMO actually want their dogs to react and encourage it, largely because they know that's what the judge wants to see.

[Puddlesmama]

I just wanted to add...

From what people say here and on another forum I participate in. It seems "little dogs" get a bad rep wherever they go. I agree with EOE about it is usually the handler. I am striving to make sure my girls are temperment sound before I ever enter them in any competitive activities. There is no way on earth I put my girls in a situation, Just to have others see the entire breed as snarky little ankle biters. That is one of my peeves.

So until Iris reachs 2 years old.. Puddles, Iris and I will continually work on obedience and hopefully we can begin to really play along.

[PeppersMom]

I think it depends on the lines too. I have always heard that Kim E Cairn dogs were nasty little things. Personally I don't think Cairns have as bad a reputation as Westies.