Ok, first the tale of Fearless Saidi.

Last week I had a day off and was at home with Saidi. She was laying next to our glass door sleeping in the sun when I walked past and saw something out side. Standing there with it's back to me, about 5 feet from the door and drinking water out of Saidi's bowl was this HUGE opossum. I slowly walked to the door and whispered "Girl, whats that"? Saidi slowly got up and when her head was high enough to see out she put her ears back and positioned herself where the door opens. I slowly and quietly opened the door but the critter heard me. Just as it was turning to look Saidi was off like a flash! She grabbed it by the neck, went over it's body and rolled it out into the yard. This thing was at least the size of my girl if not bigger but it was over matched in determination and strength Saidi tried to do the "shake it by the neck" thing but because of it's size she could not quite swing it around. Finally she let go and the opossum just laid there very still. Saidi circled it charging in and nipping it to see if there was any movement. At this point, which was probably less than 20 seconds from the start, I tried to call Saidi in the house. To my surprise she only took one more chomp and walked back to the door with a satisfied look on her face and that little butt wiggling fast enough to almost lift her off the ground. I knew the critter probably was not dead or even hurt for that matter so I went to get something to "dispose" of it. By the time I came back to the door Saidi was frantic to get outside. Evidently when the critter recognized the coast was clear it got up and high tailed it out of the "yard of doom"

Ok, now for the rant...

For a couple of days Saidi has been very uncomfortable itching herself incessantly. My thought was that she had some sort of allergy since I had just put front line on her a couple of weeks before. I did look for fleas but did not find anything. This morning my DW called me as angry as she could be. She found fleas on Saidi's tail and thought I had not given her the front line. Either it did not work or I did not get it in contact with the skin good enough. Not sure but am willing to take the blame if my girls personal torture ends after another dose.

Way to go Saidie! I can just picture the battle!

The itching. I am having the same problem with Fudgie. I also use Frontline Plus and have been wondering if it's just not doing it's job. She will scratch and bite and move her head back and forth like crazy on her front feet. Also the tail some. I have been thinking that maybe the Frontline is not the one for her. I have read about the others, but not sure what to do. I wonder about grass allergies also. I have been rinsing her feet in water and also spraying Microtek (?) spray for doggies on her feet, and cut most of the hair off. I feel sorry for them when they itch like that. She also makes little whiney noises and sounds so stressed.

Frankly, I am appalled. Why you would put your dog in danger like that is something I do not understand. You are very lucky that the only bad thing your poor pup suffered was a case of fleas. Possum are nasty critters with sharp teeth. I think drawing your dog's attention to the possum and opening the door is very irresponsible.

Sounds like some macho-ego thing to me.

Shame on you!

Marty

I agree with Marty, I was shocked when I read this. First off, why would you risk your cairns safety and why would you want your dog to kill another living creature. I think it was wrong all around.

I too think it was a male macho thing.

Laura

WAY TO GO SADIE!!!! Hey, the DH lets our kids look for moles, etc. They have killed at least 30 or more...as for the big game...well, can't say we have been in one place long enough for the kill. My late cairn got involed with a skunk and came out very stinky!! DH would like to take care of some cats...not kill just scare away from pooping near us, kids think kitty poop taste good.

I personally think the story shows the cairn at what it was bred to do...I mean come on how many times are they going to find a badger? All you need now is the rocks and get her involved with earth dog.

As for fleas...we use the old way...spray with Zodiac and sprinkle their food with garlic. Since you are as close with Sadie as we are with ours, you notice the itching right away..good thing. We having 3 have never used anything other than the spray...always worried about the play with the liquid rolling down their backs and all. When we spray they are so humiliated that they just go and lay down for a rest while the spray dries.

Edited May 9, 200817 yr by shergry

Ok, Saidi's Dad, this is not meant to "pile on" -- but I had some similar reactions as Marty and Laura. My first reaction: I would be scared for my dog because I would have no idea what this possum was capable of doing, as maybe bite or kill my dog. My second reaction: what if this animal had rabies? And bit my Cairn, even though Saidi must have shots? I just wouldn't want to have that sick animal close to my dog.

It was just a scary situation, and I would sure not want to put my little Cairn Pepper in that situation.

Pam

I am sorry but I agree with the majority. I would never let my dogs out to fight with a wild animal, besides the risk of serious injury you are also risking all sorts of diseases. And the other thing that upsets me is why would you want the opossum to die? It is an animal that wasn't causing any harm. I think I must be too much of an animal lover that I feel this was unfair to both animals. As far as this being what Cairns were bred to do, that is true BUT our dogs are house dogs. They are not used to doing this like they were bred to do. Just because wild cats were bred to survive on their own in the wild does not mean my cat would make it a night out there. Your dog isn't used to fighting. It is a macho-thing...

Sorry, just my opinion....

Edited May 9, 200817 yr by Jessica H

I would be petrified my dog would be injured, and enjoying seen him kill another animal would not be something I would do.

I am a big time animal lover

cairns were bred to do this. they were bred to do this hundreds of years ago, by farmers who did not keep them as pets, and who could easily replace them if they sickened or died. they were bred to kill vermin, very numerous wild animals who destroyed farmers' crops and reserves. this was a serious problem for farmers, and cairns were expected to sacrifice themselves to help out.

if you are a farmer keeping your cain as a vermin killer and don't mind replacing him or her if the dog should be seriously injured or killed, it makes sense to loose him or her after verminous animals even the size of opossum --or badger! (a lot of cairns died killing badger). if you cairn is a real bad butt, send him after a fox. if you are keeping your cairn as a pet, you may have concerns very different from the farmers who created this breed. you might have to weigh the risks to your little friend (including environmental and disease issues that the old time farmers of western scotland never had) against the pleasure of seeing your cairn kill something.

why not have both? sometimes when my cairn kills a mouse or a vole, i think, oh great, i have both, a killer and a pet. my dog is vaccinated against rabies and i don't see a mouse or vole blinding or exsanguinating my cairn. bigger than that and i get concerned, not least because we do not have pest animals here who deserve to be hunted and killed by my dog. i suppose if raccoons became a serious threat to human life in these parts i would have to surrender my dog to great war on raccoons, but in that case i would have to have the same attitude toward injury and loss that the old timey farmers with packs of cairns had toward theirs.

Well said pkcrossley!

I would encourage my dogs killing a mole or mouse because it grosses me out but I do not feel the mouse could kill my dog. A wild animal the same size as my dog is a different story and I love my dog too much to take that chance. Having my dog killed by a wild animal would be horrible and injury would be bad too, why I would my dog in danger like that?

Edited May 10, 200817 yr by Jessica H

While I don't think I would willing send my dog after an opossum (since they are dirty things - did you know they often burrow into the carcasses of deer for days to feed off them??? ewwwww) That said....I let my Cairns kill chipmunks and mice because #1 they enjoy the hunt and I think it is good for them and #2 we have too many!!

And maybe it is a male thing cause my bf gets a charge out of watching his "baby" take on a chipmunk (probably because they destroy his yard)

And from the sound of Sadie's Dad's post I don't think he intended to send Sadie out, I think he was just trying to get her attention..which my bf is notorius for doing. They are men...it is what they do. I don't think my bf would be very happy about having a 14 pound dog if it sat in his lap all day.

As for the frontline - I had a similar problem when I did not space it out down the back and didn't get enough directly on the skin.

Good luck with both your hunting and fleas Sadie!

I realize that Cairns were originally bred to hunt vermin on farms and were considered expendable if they "lost" a fight. Most of our Cairns have enough of the hunting instinct left that they will readily grab a squirrel, rabbit, bird or anything else they can catch.

Our Cairns are not farm dogs and instead are an integral part of our families. They often are much more than a simple "pet", and are more of a valued companion. Because of this, I think most of us are guilty of being at least somewhat overprotective of them, and might even tend to spoil them "just a bit".

In the original post, if Saidi had been outside and the possum wandered into the yard and the Cairn had attacked it, I'd say the Cairn was just being a Cairn. The thought of turning the dog loose to fight the possum makes me cringe. Too many unknowns here. In my area, rabies are not unheard of in wild racoons, skunks and other critters that can find their way into our yards. So in my case, Renny would be kept away from the critter, rather than encouraged to be a Cairn and go after it.

I sure hope Saidi's Dad is pulling our leg on this one and after letting us react for a awhile, will post a message that says "Got'cha", I made it up!! If the story is true, you are lucky that fleas are the only result.

For those of you that recall Piper's past with possums, he has killed many, double digits. But, most were babies or young adults.

We have had many summers where we have had a Momma possum with litters hanging around our area. His 2nd summer, it was endless, as he killed at least 8 or 9 June-September.

My biggest fear was that he was attacking the Momma. It always happened very late at night, 10pm- 1am 'ish. We have lots of shrubs and perrenials and I couldn't actually see what he was going after, only hear the horrid growls and screeching. My fear was that he could and probably would get hurt by a large possum or 'coon.

I had seen Big Momma a few times and she was as big as Piper, surely heavier. I dread every summer now because he gets at minimun 3 or 4, but, usually small ones. His mouth and face are usually covered in blood...sorry . Then, we must "dispose" the remains. I have a very weak stomach for it.......and, hubby travels most weeks now.

Last summer, it was the "year of the rabbit". Our neighbors had 3 nests in their backyard and Piper managed to kill at least 12. Actually, I have lost count. I know he actually ate one, too (it came back "up"). GROSS!! And, then he managed to kill a HUGE one, most likely the mommy.

He is SO prey driven. I have never seen or heard of ANYONE having a Cairn like this guy. And, I have owned them for almost 20 years.

If I had a choice, I am sorry, but, I must say that I would never encourage it.

Cathy

None of you were there and I was so I'm not saying this to those who have judged me. This is the second possum that's been caught in our back yard. The first actually lived under our deck the first year we had Saidi. It's impossible to keep my girl from going under our deck (which is too small for a person to crawl under) and that summer she was rarely let out by herself because of this. We finally caught the mother possum but her baby's which by this time were 12" to 14" were all caught by Saidi. I was not going to have another one make a nest under the deck and then have Saidi crawling under there where she most likely would have gotten in trouble and there'd be nothing I could do. I've pulled a few boards up where I can see under in some places but no way to make the entire area accessible from above. Since Saidi put the scare into this varmint we believe it's taken up residents under our neighbors deck. I've had a trap outside at night but nothing caught so far and I believe it will not try to venture into our yard again.

As for the fleas, we believe she got them from my mothers dog which also uses front line. They were playing together a few days before the itching started and my parents live on a farm. Since then we've both used a spray and no more little bugs.

Also, on the subject of earth dog. I'm afraid that sounds a little too much like a male macho thing

Please don't consider my post a "judgement".

Just telling Piper's tales and how I feel about it personally.

I just don't want your little girl to get hurt.

Cathy

CathyAnn I thought your story was very proper! As also having Cairns for over 28 years I too have those critter driven kids. Everytime we go outside they go to hunting, I love it. I origianlly got a cairn when I was single...the main reason for a cairn was for the protection. I was told way, way, way back then that they would protect their territory. Being single it was a big issue to me....lived in a rough part of town.

Then I got involved with showing and YES..EARTH DOG!! And once again, if you have not been to an event how can you have an opinion? At most earth dog event there are more women than men...those that are involved in this sport are to be highly respected!! This type of sport is honored as much as fox hunting is to the hounds. I looked back on this thread and notice that I was the only one that mentioned earth dog..I am offended as I did not put in a judgement comment!

If you would look at the other comments I have made on this forum I feel I am supportive for the most part. For a true love of dog owners as I think we are on this forum...I never made one comment that your girl would be in danger! As a matter of fact most have said they would not put theirs in this situation! To each his own and we all have to live with the decisions we make...

For all who believe...ROCK ON EARTH DOG!

Saidi'sDad, I owe you an apology. Your first post led me to believe that Saidi was turned loose on the possum for fun.

Since the possums are an ongoing problem in your area, Saidi was just being allowed to do "Her job" of varmint control, and not simply turned loose for amusement.

However, due to the possibility of rabies in my area, I most likely would have either had Animal Control come out and remove it or dealt with it in another way.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in since I've had Cairns for 18 years and have worked at a science museum in the animal handling room, caring for 2 oppossums. First of all, the possibility of these guys having rabies is pretty low based on their bloor temperature, so I would be more worried about the claws or teeth. These critters have some serious teeth, more than any other mamal and some major claws, I always wore heavy leather gloves when handling them.

Based on several months of handling experience, I can't say I'd send my Petey out after one. Too risky that he'd be injured, I'd scare him off myself, rip my deck apart or hire a professional exterminator before I knowingly let him out in the yard after one. I think it's better if they stick to smaller game. As a side note, if your cairn goes missing, check opossum traps, my cousin's ran away and they found her in one, she's okay now .

While I'd hate to expose my dogs needlessly to rabies...isn't that why we vaccinate - just in case?

Agree with those who believe it is not a good idea to alert a dog to quarry. Wild animals carry all sorts of diseases and getting bitten by one can not only transmit diseases more readily, but your dog may also be wounded by teeth and claws.

Basically, don't ask for trouble. If you have ever seen a terrier that is used for hunting you would notice that they carry many "war wounds" - and if you talk to the "terrierman" you will also find out that sometimes the terriers are so seriously injured that they are put down.

Edited May 14, 200817 yr by Cairnmania

CathyAnn I thought your story was very proper! As also having Cairns for over 28 years I too have those critter driven kids. Everytime we go outside they go to hunting, I love it. I origianlly got a cairn when I was single...the main reason for a cairn was for the protection. I was told way, way, way back then that they would protect their territory. Being single it was a big issue to me....lived in a rough part of town.

Then I got involved with showing and YES..EARTH DOG!! And once again, if you have not been to an event how can you have an opinion? At most earth dog event there are more women than men...those that are involved in this sport are to be highly respected!! This type of sport is honored as much as fox hunting is to the hounds. I looked back on this thread and notice that I was the only one that mentioned earth dog..I am offended as I did not put in a judgement comment!

If you would look at the other comments I have made on this forum I feel I am supportive for the most part. For a true love of dog owners as I think we are on this forum...I never made one comment that your girl would be in danger! As a matter of fact most have said they would not put theirs in this situation! To each his own and we all have to live with the decisions we make...

For all who believe...ROCK ON EARTH DOG!

You cannot compare Earth Dog trials to hunting for real. Earth Dog is a test of instinct and neither dog nor quarry can be hurt. Not so in "real life".

Ok, if it is as you say "You cannot compare Earth Dog trials to hunting for real. Earth Dog is a tes of instinct and neither dog nor quarry can be hurt. Not so in "real life." Then why use rats? In order for the instinct for the HUNT the dog is more agressive for something that lives vs something that only has a smell.

In order to train those hunting dogs to listen to the master they use scent smell just as those that are training for the test of Earth Dog use scent smell. These both are a hunt for vermin...they can be compared. The fox hound points the fox out...the cairn use to either drive the vermin from their den or kill it themselves. In either case the master must be able to call the dog off or let it go. I do know that either the vermin is dead and the cairn can be wounded or the cairn dies in the fight.

If you are a good dog owner and have this type of breed you need to be able to control your dog to do what you want it to do. As for the vermin in the yard...usually they are doing what vermin want to do "eat or make a den." Is is more eco-friendly to lay down poisons? Is that more humane?

Or for the fact already mentioned about rabies and proper pet ownership...TAKING RESPONSIBLITY FOR THE PET.

I do have a question...why go after my quote when I do not let mine go after big game? Do you show? Do you do Earth Dog? I really don't need an answer for as I am a RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER and I will always train my dogs for what I need them to do.

We all love our Cairns and we're all responsible people. Can we calm down?

I am calm. If I gave the impression that I was upset with my bold writing...I appologize. Just did not think the affor mentioned quote was necessary to the thread. Only my opinion...and if that can not be expressed I appologize the OP. If I offended anyone...sorry. As for the calmness my fur kids keep me there.

I forgot to mention that we also have a deck. It stands just a bit over a foot form the ground.

We also had problems with our Cairns crawling under the deck after rabbtis, etc. Then, Toto (RBB), decided not to come out a few times. She would just lay under there and wait, wait, wait. And, we had no way of reaching her and NO enticement such as treats would work. We even tried using water from the hose (she was little miss prissy and didn't like getting wet).

I finally convinced hubby to put up lattice and it has worked out great. Now, if I could get all my neighbors to do the same, as I know one of the possums took up residence two doors down under their deck for the summer. We are pretty sure that was where she had nested to have her litter.

And, the neighbor between us has an apple tree which lures them. It is in the back corner of their yard right next to my fence. Piper NEVER fails to let me know when one is in the tree. He goes balistic and barks like crazy. I usually get the flashlight and sure enough, I see green eyes staring back.

Ah, summertime in my backyard. It is certainly a love/hate feeling.