free feeding

[Napi'smom]

WOW!!

so glad I read all the posts and find out that I'm not the only one with a notsocrazy about food Cairn, 1/3 cup does not seem like a lot of food put although I worry when he doesn't eat he certainly does not look like he is starving, he is a small cairn only 13.4 lbs.

Maybe now i will not feel so guilty for leaving for work and he hasn't eaten, he is also not a morning dog, my other dog is up at 5 am, he still snuggled in bed until we are about to leave for work at 7.

[Kirby's Mom]

I know exactly what you mean Napi's mom-I get the dirty look every Monday-Friday morning, (sideways, peeping out from a grumpy little face) but Saturdays and Sundays, after we've lounged around until 8 (or later), she's ready to go.

[jodi0553]

jodi, 1/3 cup twice a day isnt a light eater

no no....he's given a total of 2/3 per day but frequently only eats one of his meals - 1/3 cup total in a day! I'm glad some people have said this is enough - I was under the impression most people fed at least 1/2 cup a day and more for younger dogs.

cairnmania - my intentions and train of thought was more along the lines of what pkcrossley said. In addition to obedience training and socialization, it is my understanding that the rigor of a meal schedule set by what I want rather than what he wants is an important part of reminding a dog daily who is in charge in a different way. Is it?

[bradl]

Some dogs are 'easy keepers' and need an astonishingly small amount of food to maintain weight. I think especially so for spayed bitches.

In any event, we only weigh our bowls so we know we're being consistent and to know whether to adjust up or down - the actual amount is irrelevant and seems to change by season, age, and activity level. Basically we just pick an amount, feed it consistently for a week or two and if the dog is getting chubby we cut back by a quarter or half ounce. Stay at that for a week or two and if the dog's appearance is holding steady - done. If still gaining, throttle back one more notch. If a dog begins to get too thin, we up the amount by a similar small amount, in stages of one or two weeks. For these small dogs, it doesn't take long to see the effects of more or less food.

[bradl]

Oops - sorry Kirby's Mom. For a morning treat we typically use something like the "Waggers" biscuits from SitStay. For a sense of scale, they are about the diameter of a fifty-cent piece and about the thickness of a Lorna Doone. One per dog, morning only. Daytime and evening "go kennel" or "doggos come!" type treats probably total up to about five Charlie Bears each (each one about the size an oyster cracker).

[Madwand]

madwand... the idea of eating multiple times vs. once a day and being obese is a bit of a falacy, calories are calories -doesnt matter when you eat them... the idea is that humans cant control their volume and would binge if we only ate once a day, so multiple small meals controls that urge, better for sustaining energy/muscle mass if its spread out...

So If I normally eat 3 whoppers 3 times a day and I switch to eating 3 whoppers in one sitting and nothing the rest of the day, I will have no ill effects from it? I ain't no rocket surgeon, but I don't think your body can effectively use all that stuff at once, what goes unused will turn to fat.

[Eliz222]

Scout was free fed and did quite well with it. She was a good weight...not fat...not skinny. This worked well until Finch arrived. We called her "Piglet" because she would eat all her food quickly and then let out a burp! My two are fed twice a day now and are both doing well. Finch does not gulp her food down, which I'm sure her stomach appreciates!

[Cairnmania]

cairnmania - my intentions and train of thought was more along the lines of what pkcrossley said. In addition to obedience training and socialization, it is my understanding that the rigor of a meal schedule set by what I want rather than what he wants is an important part of reminding a dog daily who is in charge in a different way. Is it?

Nope. Whether you free feed or only put food down at a certain time of day the message is the same - it is you that is providing the food. Whether or not the dog cares is another issue entirely.

A secondary reason why feeding at set times can be useful is it allows you to predict/plan when your dog will need to poop. If your dog does not have free access to the garden then it can definitely help with timing of walks or when you need to let the dog outside.

[Cookie's Mom]

This is an interesting thread and I read others about food, what kind, etc. here. I see that I am not the only one who seems to have a picky eater. I always put food in my lab's bowl in the morning, and by evening, she had eaten all of it. I tried this with Cookie when she first came and it worked out pretty well until she got colitis and had to have canned food several times a day. If they are hungry, they eat. I have to agree with Brad about adding or subtracting amounts of food and watching them or checking the ribs. Sometimes though, it may be too hot to eat, or they may not feel like eating. I know that my lab (and I realize they are very diff from cairns) used to eat less in the hot summer months than she did during the cold winter months. She seemed to be hungrier and need more food in the winter. Cookie, on the other hand, prefers canned food, bolts it down so fast it worries me, and doesn't like kibbles at all. It also depends on what food you are feeding and how much the bag "says" you should be feeding per day. Play with it-it may be that it is too hot to eat sometimes. If you are still worried, take a trip to the vet to rule out anything that may be playing with the appetite. It sounds like overkill, but it may give you peace of mind, which can mean a great deal to a doggie parent.

[onesojourner]

I actually meant 9 week old puppy... is there no way to edit a post?

I have always used feeding as a good way to teach stay and ok to the other dogs I have trained. I am working on creating a normal feeding time. he just eats so light I feel bad.

[bradl]

I actually meant 9 week old puppy... is there no way to edit a post?

You can edit a post for up to two hours after posting (there's an edit link beneath it). After that, it's history (no more edit link).

[onesojourner]

well that's pretty frustrating... I could have sworn I have been on other IP.Board forums that were not like that.

[Kirby's Mom]

Thanks Brad!

PS-after a couple days this seems to be working well!

[Maggie15]

"So If I normally eat 3 whoppers 3 times a day and I switch to eating 3 whoppers in one sitting and nothing the rest of the day, I will have no ill effects from it? I ain't no rocket surgeon, but I don't think your body can effectively use all that stuff at once, what goes unused will turn to fat."

Well i'm not a dietitian, nor do i perform surgery on rockets, but i wouldnt eat 3 whoppers a day regardless of when i ate them... but in essence, imo, there's no difference, in fact you might actually burn more calories by eating them all at once since your metabolism will increase due to the mass of food intake. your ill effects may be sore stomach from the quality/quantity of food...but not more fat.... there are old wives tales like dont eat after 7pm etc., when it really doesnt matter when you do it, generally speaking, a high-perf athlete needs to eat 6-10 times a day to continuously feed their muscles. I'm not a banker either, but if you put 1 penny a day in a jar every hour for hundred hours and I put one dollar in mine at the hundredth hour, we'd both have a buck!

a

[shergry]

I am sorry to disagree with A and J, I was a truck driver, so that ment I was up at all times of the day and night. From eating after 7pm, your body is regulated to slow down and rest so what ever you eat is stored and when certain foods are stored in fat cells they have no where to go, just add more fat. It is also known from large breed of dog that if they are fed once a day they can twist their stomachs, surgery to correct. If Brad has other info on this I am open to the info. This information that I talk of is from memory and we (as older people) know how that goes...LOL. But I do remember from other breeders and vets and doctors saying that eating small quantities during the DAY is a good thing, it allows the stomach to properly place the nutrients, etc. I can't remember any doctor approving the snacking or eating at night, and from my athletic days, no caoch said "Hey make sure you eat something at night." There is a big difference in how our and the dogs body metabolize the food during the active day, and rest at night. If I have offended any one I am sorry this is only MHO.

One last thing, after getting of the truck driving job, serious dieting!!! The late night driving and snacking even on fruit put weight on places....well lets just say EEEEH! Excersice is always a good thing, and if we ever do a bad thing like give a treat at night.......we make sure poop is done before bed, and early morning walk. We rarely do this, because have come home to a mess and distressed dog.

[sj4iy]

My dog is fed twice a day, 1/3 cup dry food- it takes approximately (and I'm not joking) 10 seconds for him to finish. He gets a few treats during the day (a couple of milk bones that I break up and use for bribery). He would gorge himself sick if I free-fed him. Right now he weigh about 16-17 lbs; he weighed over 19 when he was on steroid medication, so now that he's off of it and has lost the weight, and plus his history of medical problems, I try to keep him at a healthy weight. I once saw a woman walking a cairn in the park that had to weigh at least 30 lbs (it was almost square, the poor thing), and it couldn't go more than a few yards without having to lie down. I don't think free feeding is the best thing to do, because you can look around you to see how the ability to eat all the time has affected our society. No different for a house-dog that can't get as much exercise as it needs.

[Maggie15]

there are many reasons to eat spread out during the day, and obviously to eat healthy... the idea was that calories consumed during one sitting will make you obese versus the same calories spread over 24 hours... i dont believe that (and theres science to support this), this was not meant to suggest this as best practice. as for your coach never telling to eat at night... kinda wrong there too... muscle building athletes will in fact wake up at 2-3AM and take in a protein meal, muscles grow all day and need nutrients to grow, they will then eat themselves if not fed... so yes some people eat every three hours... it becomes very complicated and scientific, with research supporting many theories... many are 'old wives tales' that are there to rid humans of bad habits...and thats not a bad thing...

a

[Madwand]

i dont believe that... many are 'old wives tales'

You call everything you don't believe an old wives tale...I'll stick to what I know and hope others do their own research. I would like to see the science that disproves smaller, spread out meals though.

Additionally, an athlete can afford to eat in the middle of the night because he doesn't lead a sedentary lifestyle. Your average couch potatoe cannot. Neither the average inactive housedog.

[bradl]

I'm going with the Activity Levels, Not Food Intake approach. All I need to do now is convince myself that I'm a menopausal monkey and that staring at a computer all day and reading web forums all night is roughly equivalent to a daily marathon. If I can do that, I'm golden!

[shergry]

Discussed that issue with DH about athlete eating late nite...conclusion that was drawn is the fact they are exercising all time of the day. The long distant runner eats high carbs then go run. Having cairns for the last 26 years...not one ate then played for 4 hours non stop, not even as puppies have I seen them play after eating. I have had a puppy eat then try to play with kids and get sick, there needs to be a slight rest period after eating. Also, from personel experience....doctors say that small amounts of food through out the day is the best diet, your digestive system can use all the nutrients to keep us in good health. Dieticians say that if you stop eating by 7pm your body can work through out the night on the nutrients that you consumed during the day, what is left over that is.

Last comment on this subject from me...."I never said anyone was wrong on anything they said!" So with lifes experiences being to each individuals experience. That does NOT make them WRONG. This is lifes experiences, this forum is great to allow us to have opions, we don't have to agree with opinions, BUT they are NOT WRONG.

Again if I have offended anyone I appologize, we should all feel comfortable and confident in how we are raising our cairns. We shall all have different cairns, greatness of the breed. We shall all have different problems, but the great thing we do on this forum is support each other, as for A and J, you have your opinion and a right to it.

[bradl]

Some good points. I sure hope no one takes anything too personally, to the point where they stress out and can't enjoy the forum. I would be surprised (and bored) if everyone always agreed with each other. Maybe it's to do with being raised in a large family - I've always viewed arguing as a hobby nothing personal; practically a sport. That said, speaking for myself, I try to balance my efforts between not GIVING offense and not TAKING offense.

There is no real last word on the web, or even a need for one: Google will find them all. Once a variety of opinions have been posted, future readers will make their minds as to what they believe and why. I truly believe there is little in dogs (or in life) that can be boiled down to the One True Way, anyway. Some time-honored Internet abbreviations that are to me automatically implied in every posting include IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) and YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)!