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What is the proper punishment for biting?


Barney's Mom
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OK, Barney did it again. I am trying to be patient with him, but my nerves are ragged. We were playing Monopoly and he was asleep under the table. My daughter dropped a property card and immediately Barney shoots like a lightning bolt over to the card and gets it in his mouth. I immediately run for a treat and tell him to leave it. He drops the card, I put the treat near his mouth to give it to him as I grab the card. He sees I am going for the card and lunges and bites my hand!! This dog is psycho I tell you!!!

What is the proper punishment for this????? What consequence is going to make him realize this is BAD BAD BAD?????

I gave him a firm NO and took him to the basement and put him in his crate, away from all of us. He got all yippy when I went upstairs and stayed that way for about 10 minutes, then quieted down. We finished our game then went and got him, which was about an hour later.

Is this the right thing to do? I know it is wrong to swat him, and I am finding that the scruffing is not a good option for him because he seems to be anticipating it even when he has not been bad, like when we go to pick him up. So that approach is out. What do I have left? I am getting very tired of his biting and his aggression with "stolen" objects.

Thanks!!!

All creatures great and small, the Lord God, He made them all!

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When Darcy was younger and going through the biting phase, our trainer told us this. Once an offense happens, immediately respond and put her in a bathroom (a small room) and close the door. We put her in a bathroom that she did not get to go in otherwise and had no food, toys, etc. She told us to leave her in there for 2-5 minutes depending on the severity of the offense. Then when we let Darcy out, not to give her any attention or dote over her. Typcially, we would stand up straight with our arms folded, looking up at the ceiling. Darcy would almost always run up to whoever she offended to "make up". Usually she would shower us with kisses.

In my opinion, you've got most of the concept down that I mentioned above... however I would NOT put him in his crate. Although he whined when you put him down there, it is a familiar area that is "his". You want to send the message that it's your terms in YOUR area.

How old is Barney again????

Edited by Darcy's Folks
Kate, Darcy & Bailey's mom
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He will be a year old on March 3.

He has two crates, one in our rec room, and one that he sleeps in at night. I don't really have a room to send him to that I could clear the decks! He has a way of finding something to destroy wherever he goes. The only place that's safe is in his crate. I guess I could just put him in the pen that has his nighttime crate IN it. Would that be better?

The trainer we are going to right now said to put him in his crate.

All creatures great and small, the Lord God, He made them all!

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Well, I'm sure either way regardless of where you put Barney, he will get the message. It just takes time with instilling the message over and over again until he realizes that getting "put away" is not fun. I swear it felt like we were putting Darcy in that darn bathroom every other moment. But that's what it took and seemed to do the trick after a few weeks. We chose to remove all interesting things out of Darcy's reach in the bathroom we used.... floor mat, toilet paper, anything in the tub. It was a guest bathroom so it was a little easier to take apart for the sake of putting Darcy in there since it wasn't jammed up with all of our everyday stuff in there.

Another thing you could do is either lift him up by the scruff of his neck and/or pin him down on the ground. I don't know what others will say to that since he's bit older now, as I believe those are supposed to be tactics to use when they are younger. All I know is the few times we used those tactics it worked on Darcy in her "teen" stage. She and Bailey got in a bit of a fit with each other a few weeks ago and Darcy ended up biting my husband on the arm thinking she was getting Bailey. My husband immediately pinned her down. The rest of the night and into the next day she was super lovey to him. Even licked the area she bit him. Of course, she's a daddy's girl so usually he's the one to punish her because she tends to respond better to him.

We started to notice a considerable change in Darcy just before her 1st birthday. And I know in dogs it ranges. So hopefully Barney will come around in the next month to six months. 12-18 months old is suppose to be the teen time when they can be the most challenging. Hopefully that super duper cute face of his will diminish your frustration when he is naughty. He has such a wonderful coloring!!!!

Kate, Darcy & Bailey's mom
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You hit the nail on the head!! If he wasn't so darn cute, we would have sent him to Siberia by now! :lol:

I am hoping you are right and this habit is somewhat due to his age. He can be so sweet, then turn around and be such a terror. Some of the sounds that come out of him amaze me...a good description would be "rabid wolf"!

I have a bad cold today and all I wanted to do was sleep. I could tell Barney was tired too because he was falling asleep while he was sitting up! A very cute thing to see by the way! I grabbed him and we laid down on the couch together. He is a real snuggler and just longs to be held, especially when he is tired. While we were both asleep the cat came up and sniffed his foot. Well you would have thought he was being attacked by a pack of dogs! This is another issue we have with him that I am hoping and praying will disappear with time. He also gets banished for snarling/lunging at the cat. I never knew a dog could have such intense pray instinct. Fortunately our cat is young and agile and can get away from him if need be.

Here's a funny thing. She likes to jump up on top of the baby gates in the kitchen where he is and hang her rear over it and swish her tail to get his attention. When he comes running to get her, off she goes to safety on the other side! She also knows that racing around drives him up the wall, so she does it whenever she can. She is such a tease with him! I am amazed that a cat would have the type of intelligence to plan out and execute "teasing"! :P

Thank goodness Barney will hopefully be out of his teen years when my daughter enters hers! Two willfull family members would be about my limit! :(

All creatures great and small, the Lord God, He made them all!

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If Kenzie nips at me, I say "No" very sternly and offer her one of her toys as a preferred alternative. If she takes the toy, I praise her enthusiastically. I also read somewhere that if your pup bites your hand, push your hand into its mouth further, where it becomes uncomfortable for the dog. It won't like having this big thing stuffed in its mouth like that and will be discouraged from trying that again. I've done that with Kenzie a few times and she's not so nippy anymore. Remember, with puppies at least, nipping tends to mean they want to play. But of course biting can be painful and it has to be curbed before it becomes a habit or outright aggression. Remember to avoid games like tug-of-war that can encourage biting! :)

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When Bella was in her biting stage we were told by our vet to push our hand in her mouth so as to make her gag. Sounds really bad, but I have to admit it did work. Another thing we did was to smack her snout with our finger. She learnt quickly not to bite.....having said that though she changed from biting to licking.....anyone got advice for licking???

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I wouldn't scruff, swat, or do anything that could be construed as aggressive behavior toward Barney. This makes some dogs more aggressive and you are risking a severe bite to yourself. The "time outs" soiund like a better plan. Good luck!

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When training a biting or nipping lab we would turn their lip in while they were biting causing them to their own lip...This worked wonders almost immediately. When we tried it with Ellie, it worked pretty well, but you have to be careful because you are still close and if you have a more "agressive" dog, they may bite again.

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We're the Cairns of America

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Barclay snapped a treat out of my hand once... i flicked him on the nose as a result! he was so taken aback he hasn't ever done it again.

I'd be careful when using his crate for punishment though. It's supposed to be his "room" or his refuge. His own space, if you will. I wouldn't equate punishment with the place you go when we leave the house!

Just a thought

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I don't think I am describing Barney clearly enough. He is fast....lightning fast. When he bites it is a split second and the deed is done. It would be humanly impossible to get my fist into his mouth, and hey, sticking my fist into a snarling dog's mouth doesn't sound too wise in my book.

When we leave and he goes in his crate he is given a nice toy or chew bone or treat filled Kong. I think he definitely associates us leaving with good things and he knows he is not being punished.

When I put him in his crate when he bites, he gets no treat and he is literally abandoned for a while. He is a needy dog, so this hits home for him.

Scruffing is out, swatting his snoot is out...Both create an even more aggressive reaction in him. We must use psychological warfare with him rather than man to man combat!

I need some psychological amunition that works!

All creatures great and small, the Lord God, He made them all!

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I forgot the tounge compression/lip turned in approach. I forgot our trainer actually did that to Darcy once during a class and she was stunned. We did it a few times during the biting phase and that too worked well.

Kate, Darcy & Bailey's mom
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WOOF! Eli, here, the Grand Pooh-Bah of CUR. :nono:

Barney, Dude! What's the matter with you? Biting and wrecking stuff???? You are giving the members of CUR a bad name. The By-laws of CUR promote CHAOS and MAYHEM, not pain and destruction! If you don't shape up I may have to revoke your CUR membership. :soap:

So SHAPE UP! Quit chomping people and things that don't belong to you. :censored:

The Grand Pooh-Bah of CUR has spoken! :mad:

WOOF!

Eli B)

You may continue to RUNAROUNDALLCRAZYBARKINGYOURFOOLHEADOFF! ;)

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I need some psychological amunition that works!

Well, Barney sounds like my Missy was in terms of the biting when gets a hold of something. Yes, Missy was puppy mill and had issues. I think Barney, like Missy, just can not realise that what he is doing is bad and the more we hit/scruff/hand in mouth only makes for more aggression as that is how Missy was. I can only tell you from working with Missy that I had to learn her do's & dont's. There was a time my Brother in law dropped a $10.00 bill, went to get it and Missy grabbed it along with his hand. Thank goodness the bite was very minor, more of a scratch, but still. After that I knew that I could not let her be in a situation like that where she can bite someone and have to be inpounded and whatever else someone would do. Missy was able to enjoy a long life due to me guarding her from others and animals. Missy, like I said in my other post was sheltered due to we couldn't go for walks due to her aggression towards other animals. She loved people.

But, Missy was Missy and all you had to do was pet her the wrong way and she could snarrel so no one was to pet her unless I was right there. It was alot of work and guarding. I guess I just knew Missy and knew she couldn't help herself.

Deep down in my heart I knew she needed a chance and if that was going ot happen it was going to happen only by me.

She lived to be 17 and we never had any issues with biting anyone (I never gave her the chance or oppurtunity)

Missy was not a pet for a family with children or other dogs. She did fine when our son was born, she was 6 at the time and adored him. Missy did fine in her enviroment and her surroundings. I think god knows who these certain troubled pets should go to because any family with kids would of and could of never kepted her with her issues. I was greatful to beable to give her a wonderful life, she taught me so much in life. Having Kramer now I really see the difference in a healthy dog and a puppy mill puppy. All I know is ot was well worth the trouble I went threw. I miss her dearly.

I wish you alot of luck with Barney, I hope the trainer can help him. Wouldnt it be nice if we can read there minds, to know what is going threw there little furry heads.

Best of luck to you, keep plugging away and hopefully Barney will soon beable to be trusted.

Rhonda,Kramer & Angel Missy "Blessed is the person who has earned the love of an old dog". "It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are" Missy Rainbow Bridge Memorial
/>http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabetes/memorium/missy2.htm

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I know you keep Barney under constant supervision and restraint, but do you always have a leash on him? Kirby is going through a "teen" time, and since it's started, I always keep a leash on her when she's out and we're home, so I can either stop her from bullying, or from dodging me. I get her attention, make her sit for me, then I pick her her up and make sit next to me until she's good and calm-Kirby loves being petted, but hates being held. Also, I don't look at her during this time, or after I let her go. She does crave her attention-just like Barney.

She only starts in when she really wants something, and I give her a firm no. And it's usually at night right before bed. Princess needs her 8+ hours of sleep! She has freedom, and is supervised, but I have something I can grab on to. Otherwise she won't pay attention to me, or thinks she's getting the upper hand.

Her temper tantrums have diminished, and now when she starts in, it lasts for 5 seconds at the most-instead of 5 minutes. And it's not every day now, and usually only once, if she REALLY thinks it's worth it-for a while it was a few times every day. For a while I thought we were going to have to call SuperNanny or something. Still training, still working, but the light is at the end of the tunnel.

It sounds like Barney is as stubborn and headstrong as Kirby. Also, if you have something you can grab, that isn't him, you may be able to stop him from making contact before he even tries to bite. Right now, the behavior is working for him, because even though he gets punished for biting, he still gets the upper hand for even a short time.

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You've received some great advice, and i can sympathize with how hard it is to discpline a 'fast' dog... maggie is fast and she'll run in circles and under furniture to avoid capture (i'll share method lower down)... but imo, biting is serious, and although it rarely happens with maggie we will grab her by the scruff, toss her on her back with a stern 'NO', i hold her by her neck until she relaxes, i will then say 'stay' and release my grip, while i'm releasing if it seems that she will want to move i hold her firmly again, she can only leave that position on my terms, not hers!... she will need to relax, and lie on her side without me holding her when i say 'stay', if she does this i tell her 'good girl' and give her a pat on the head.

One thing, i do not quit if she runs to avoid punishment, i grab a blanket or towel on toss it on her while she's running then i grab her. she knows that means trouble. i dont know how else to catch a dog like this running around the yard. i had to use this technique early enough on in her life that she knows it well and it worked one day last summer when she got loose and was running through neighbours yards, thinking of how to get her before she went into the street, i grabbed a towel off a clothesline held it up in the air, told her 'stay' and she immediately lied down and let me pick her up! i'm really glad i have that trick up my sleeve!

Secondly, i have kept a squirt bottle of water close by, so from 3-4' away i'll spray her as punishment if she's running away.

It might seem a bit stern, but i think its important, especially with strong willed dogs to maintain hierarchy. bad actions=repercussions... like what i've described, we've tried 'the ignore' - but she doesnt seem to respond with it... and i can proudly say that we've only had to grab her maybe half a dozen times since we've had her, she knows not to bite.

a

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Oh boy........what a booger! Have you been able to get with a trainer regarding this yet? I have not heard. If not then I would suggest that be your best option for getting to the bottom of this behavior. Biting is not something to be taken lightly so since this has been an on going problem with Barney a professional trainer with a lot of behavior modification experience and experience with terriers would help you a lot.

There are a lot of reasons dogs bite, you have to figure out why he is biting before you can effectively correct him. Is he biting out of fear for some reason? Is his behavior because of a dominance issue that has gone haywire? Is he displaying offensive aggression? Is it a genetic issue? These are the questions to ask.

When he bites are they air snaps most of the time or does he pretty much connect with the skin and/ or break the skin? Try to find a common denomonator for all the biting incidents, his MO if you will this will help you determine why he is biting. I would write all this down in some kind of log to make sure your memory doesn't fade as to what he does and how often.

At this stage I would not try scruffing him or doing the dominance rolls. This could make his aggression more frequent or worse. Any time you deal with this kind of behavior problem (Human aggression) :redflag: you really need the help of a qualified professional. It is not cheap but neither is a lawsuit because a dog bit someone or medical bills for stitches.

It may take a lot of work to get to the bottom of this but I am sure you can do it! :thumbsup:

PM me if I can help you at all. I would be glad to go into more detail with you!!!!

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When our dogs thought they would try this w/us, I either grabbed them around the snout firmly and told them no loudly, or I grabbed the fur directly under their mouths (chin?). None of them tried repeating it, and I think they learned quite quickly who was boss. They were not hit, but I sure think I surprised them!!

pat.

Children don't care how much you know...they want to know how much you care.
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  • 1 month later...
sheila and Misty

bringing this one back-Misty doesnt intentionally bite and was doing fairly well but has regressed since her spay-unfortunately..she air snaps between vocalizing and then gets aggressive when shes excited . shes back to tripping us while biting a foot or ankle , and I have several little pinch marks up and down my arms-she nips to play -and if accidentally grabs your hand with her toy OUCH!

the rest of the day she is layed back and calm but the mouth opens as soon as you pe her-unless shes whooped.

I really hate that. Her teeth are huge and her grip is strong. we never rough housed her as took extra precaution not to play aggressively. her excitement overwhelms her and she gets rough. I know the back molars are bothering her..but can that be only the reason? I dont think its genetic,Its partly a dominance issue-but I dont think I give in.

we stick toys in her mouth constantly when its open. she seems to NEED to have my hands in her mouth-I tried the lip thing,the gag,the nose smack. the hold jaws shut, ignor works best but how long before it will become a problem-anyone know? shes almost 8months old now.. appreciate extra tips-besides another expense option

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To add to what i said above, another thing is to not let them lie under the table or that close to you when you are playing games. This is a dominance issue. Do you ever have to step around or over a lying dog? This is a huge no-no! A dog that does that is asserting themselves, not letting them rest under your feet (close to your scent) asserts your position, also do not even let the dog in any bedroom. period. assert yourselves and only allow the dog into your 'zone' on your terms (and never in the bedroom!). be consistent 24/7 with this, you may eventually be able to relax on the rules, but a real stubborn dog needs clear rules, boundaries and consistency.

a

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sheila and Misty

Aand J----Hmmmmm. thanks. but maybe you didnt understand..its her learning the when not to put the pressure .doesnt realize her strenghth -its not intentional as she needs to be in control she knows whos boss.

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"pain for pain" I certainly get the message when she bites me for doing something undesireable to her. Obviously i don't harm her, but she might get a little pinch from me to get her attention and then some shaming for terrible behavior. Izabella is a little toughie.

Barbara

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