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Registering your Cairn Terrier


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Where, or what is the difference where you register them? What is ACA and AKC? I have her papers to register her, they are ACA. I thought registering was through the AKC now I am confused. Thanks.

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ACA is one of a multitude of 'alternative' registries set up to help puppy mills and commercial breeders sell 'registered' dogs. They tend to capitalize on confusion about what a registry is, what papers are and aren't, etc. Many make full use of sound-alike or important-sounding names to further the confusion.

In some cases, commercial or casual breeders use these alternative registries to do an end-run around AKC requirements such as record and facility inspections, suspensions, etc.

ACA apparently even refers people to pet stores, ensuring that puppy mills, large-scale commercial breeders, and careless breeders are all kept busy ruining various breeds and making a profit to boot. Joy.

Some reading on registries:

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/breedregistries.htm

http://www.bmdcsew.org/pbg/pages_pbg/be_an...cated_buyer.php

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Ok, I have been googling things as well. Apparently she isn't AKC then. I didn't even know the difference. Dumby me for nto knowing beforehand I guess. Oh well, she is still the cutest little girl I ever had!!! I was never planning on breeding her or anything anyway, but would of been nice for the option down the road if I changed my mind. I do believe she is full bred. She came from a home with only 1 set of dogs, and she was out of the very first litter of her parents. She was in the house and very well taken care of. I have no doubt about that. I think the lady just didn't know anything about it either. I don't know for sure though. Maybe she was playing me for dumb, too? I was reading some on markign for a Cairn Terrier and she deffinitely has all of them and fits the standards, although she is only 10 weeks old.

Thank you.

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She definitely LOOKS like a Cairn puppy in your profile pic! After doing some research and also with some answers from bradl, I think a lot of breeders register there dogs with NON AKC registries because it is a LOT cheaper and they feel like they are getting a deal. Just because it's an "AKC" dog, doesn't mean it's not from a puppy mill. I thought this article was very interesting regarding the AKC vs ACA

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/...58/m/9471986068

Amber

6amigos.jpg3amigospose.jpg3amigos.jpgRoscopuppy.jpg3amigos2.jpg

We're the Cairns of America

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She looks all Cairn to me. She is darling. All you can do at this point is enjoy her. We all have made mistakes in the past.

Whether AKC or ACA she is in a loving home. I wanted a cairn so bad before hubby & I got married and went into a pet store and there she was. 2 weeks before our wedding Missy was bought. Even though she was puppy mill, had many issues and illness's she gave me 17 of the best years. Kramer is full AKC and from a great breeder and his temperment is totally different from Missy. He is rhe perfect gentleman. My little girl left me with an empty feeling and she will never be replaced. We love them and they give us back so much.

Enjoy your little girl.

Rhonda,Kramer & Angel Missy "Blessed is the person who has earned the love of an old dog". "It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are" Missy Rainbow Bridge Memorial
/>http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabetes/memorium/missy2.htm

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I know, she is darling and very well mannared (gosh, is that spelled right?). She is just what my husband wanted for our home. She is not a nervous dog at all. She is calm and has been so easy to house train so far.

I just don't want my husband upset with me about spending the money we did to buy her from this lady. It was a big stretch for us to spend it on a pet, but we wanted a good breed of dog and reading everything about Cairn, she seemed perfect. I do believe the lady took good care of them. Her hosue was nice and clean, etc. I just don't want my hubby to be mad about the money!! lol

All in all, I got my little girl though (I have 4 boys), so we call her thier baby sister, hahaha.

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She will definitely add a new dynamic to your house! You needed another female around there!!! lol

6amigos.jpg3amigospose.jpg3amigos.jpgRoscopuppy.jpg3amigos2.jpg

We're the Cairns of America

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Regarding the AKC vs ACA link (and since this is a registration topic): I'm fascinated by the people knocking the AKC who claim their dogs 'meet standards' - well folks, they don't know that because they aren't showing their dogs to judges and people knowledgeable in the breed - namely, other breeders.

Warning: Please scroll down to the next message or hit 'back' if you would prefer to skip one of my spittle-flecked rants.

Every puppy is cute and every dog a champion in the heart of its owner, but that's not a reason for breeding them.

Even experienced breeders will tell you that they need to show their dogs in front of others who know the breed and its history (judges and their peers) to ensure they don't go 'kennel blind' and start assuming that just because they know what they're doing, and they like their own dogs, that they aren't actually letting their lines drift away from Cairn 'type.' The desire to see a Cairn twenty or fifty years from now that still looks like a Cairn is why these breeders register their dogs and show their dogs. They also join breed clubs with others who share their interest so that they can stay on top of what's happening to the breed, in their region and around the country and around the world.

Many casually bred Cairns have oversized ears, ears set too closely or too wide, snipey muzzles, upright shoulders, wide fronts, poor rear angulation, too light or too heavy bone, iffy coats, rabbity feet, round eyes, light eyes, lack of 'stop' on the skull, narrow skulls, sloping or rounded toplines, low tailsets, weak pasterns, sketchy temperaments, and on and on. Even 'show-quality' dogs may show some of these faults to a lesser degree. The difference is, breeders who care about Cairns being good Cairns will only breed the best to the best. They don't breed because they have a 'breeding pair' in the house. They rarely repeat breedings. They are trying to move the breed forward, eliminating the bad stuff that creeps in, and strengthen and 'set' the good stuff. The same inbreeding that people complain about is also the thing that helps isolate, limit, or eliminate many diseases and conditions.

No, AKC registration is NOT A WARRANTY and only ensures that reasonably decent recordkeeping can assure you that the parents were both Cairn Terriers. Another registry with equivalent record integrity (a big if) could do similarly. However built around that basic AKC recordkeeping function is a vast infrastructure of education and activity that enables breeders to actively steward the breed, rather than milk it for profit. Not to mention AKC provides a wealth of activity to help owners and families establish close, working relationships with their dog: obedience, rally, tracking, earthdog, agility, plus all manner of field trials, herding and so on as appropriate for a given breed.

I am not blind to the shortcomings of AKC in some areas, but that doesn't somehow negate all the good it does, and it doesn't excuse using 'alternative registries' to support an industry that turns dogs into short-shelf-life commodities as pet-shop inventory.

:soap: Sorry. I seem to have woken up on the wrong side of the soapbox today. I'll go have some tea and try to relax.

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Thank you for all the knowladge and input. I was just struck funny about finding out about the difference of AKC and ACA and all the others out there for registration, good and bad. I just wanted a healthy puppy, and you are right, it is not a health warrenty... Her health is guranteed by me because I will take her to the vet and treat her as one of the family. We are in love with her regardless, pure bred or mutt! :wub:

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Thank you for all the knowladge and input. I was just struck funny about finding out about the difference of AKC and ACA and all the others out there for registration, good and bad. I just wanted a healthy puppy, and you are right, it is not a health warrenty... Her health is guranteed by me because I will take her to the vet and treat her as one of the family. We are in love with her regardless, pure bred or mutt! :wub:

I don't think your little one doesn't look like a mutt - looks like both lines are full Cairn in the picture - you can definately have an ACA registered dog and have it be full Cairn, but as Brad mentioned it may or may not be bred according to breed standards - there are so many different pet registries - even APRI - and yes I do think some are able to premote puppy mill breeding through them with labeling a "registered dog" - but at the same time when you see this little life that you fall in love with it's so hard to say you're not good enough to love because you're registry isn't AKC or you could have come from a puppy mill - and it's such a catch twenty-two - if you leave a dog because it might be a puppy mill dog then who's going to home it? and then at the same time if you buy this puppy - you're technically supporting a tragic reality of puppy mills - there's no easy cure other than to just continue educating people about the over populations and to make sure they don't continue to breed dogs that aren't intended to promote the very best blood lines possible. I'm sure 90 percent of all the dogs I've ever owned were rescued from mills and shelters and didn't have the proper blood lines but they sure made the very best dogs with a lot of love.

Hollie Edelbrock & Brystal Sonoma
Chris, Stacy and Little Noah
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I have one that can be AKC registered and one that could be ACA registered.. They are neither as we have them for pets. The male has been neutered and the female will be spayed as soon as she goes thru her 1st heat cycle.

When we purchased them we did not look at papers we got them because they touched our hearts and knew that they belonged with us. A good and loving home. We got them both at a pet store and I know not a good subject. We feel that we saved them from a life different than what they have with us.

Whether they are AKC or ACA that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.. they weren't purchased for their papers. There was a connection with the first look if we had not purchased Rocky we probably never would have known about the breed. Yes he was an impulse. But he was not the first pet we had and knew the commitment that we were making.

Right now they are so loved and cared for they want for nothing they have us wrapped around their paws. They are animals that depend on us for their care and love we are the ones that reap the benefits of having them in our home.

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WOW, alot of the not to so good breed standards my Missy had. Missy was bought from a pet store, closed down 2 weeks after we bought her and so on. My girl had the big ears etc... I'm am not for puppy mill/pet stores puppys by no means.

Missy was my first dog moving out of parents home (getting married) My folks, dad being the dog lover were mostly strays he picked up except, his German Shepard. I walked into a pet store and there was my childhood dream dog.

We bought her. I have to say, Missy would of never had a chance in life if we didn't buy her. I went threw alot with her.

She had many issues on biting, behavior etc...not to mention the thousand of dollars for illness's from being puppy mill.

In our first home, Missy was named killer dog! So, even though I would do it all over my Missy, I could never get another from a pet store. Illness's, mental issues was not Missy's fault, its the people breeding them for money.

Lots of family/friends said to me after Missy passed, what is my next breed I want. Well I never hesitated to say another Cairn. They looked at me like I was nuts. Most said you want to be house bound again, the breed has so many illness's etc...etc... I said that is not the usual, Missy was from bad breeding, it was not her fault. Now we have Kramer and let me tell you, they are so different from his personality to his Cairn terrier standards. All of our dogs are house pets not for showing or breeding but it sure is nice that Kramer loves people and other animals. My guard is down!

Rhonda,Kramer & Angel Missy "Blessed is the person who has earned the love of an old dog". "It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are" Missy Rainbow Bridge Memorial
/>http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabetes/memorium/missy2.htm

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To me I agree with Brad there are a lot of "registries" out there and to me they do not maintain a good stud book and have kind of a we will give anyone a try once type of attitude. There are not enough generations and care taken in pedigrees to me.

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Brad,

Your post was very educational and nicely outlined the difference between a well bred dog and not so well bred dogs. What I did not see in your post are the inherited genetic diseases that cairns sometime carry. It's heartbreaking to see a puppy with the pain of CMO, or a young adult that has a liver shunt. Good breeders cull genetic disorders out of their program immediately.

These issues need to be talked about occasionally. I do believe it is important to safeguard the breed that we all chat about on this forum. If we don't, as Brad pointed out, what will become of our breed 50 years from now? I absolutely abhor puppy mills and their outlets....pet stores. Cairns are bred in mills, but because they're not really all that popular, compared to breeds that are riding a wave of popularity , aren't found all that often in stores. Thank goodness! I for one hope our breed manages to avioid the limelight of wild popularity! Still, the vast majority of rescues are pet store cairns and mill rescues.

I think everyone will agree that whether we show our cairn or not, when they're home in the living room they're our pets. Show dogs have no more importance in the "love factor' than a pet store dog or a rescue that enters our hearts. However, if the dog is not a good example of the cairn standard, then the most loving thing we can do for that dog and for the breed is to make sure it never reproduces by spaying or neutering. The orginal question posed by the poster was an excellent question that stimulated discussion. Education in what to look for in a cairn and the attributes of responsible breeders can only help our breed.

By the way, if your cairn is not registerable with the AKC, and you want to participate in performance events, the AKC may allow you to register with an ILP. Your dog will need proof of spay or neuter. To read more about AKC ILP, there is an ILP thread in the "Sporting Cairn".

Edited by Greg P

Greg and Val Perry

Home of Kula RN CGC, Am. Can. Int'l. CH Cairngorm Coffee Tea or Me RA ME EE2/Can. SE NAJ NAS CGC (Kona), CH Clanmarr's Steele Princess (Hattie) and CH Scotchbroom Thistle The Patriot SE (Sully) Visit: CroftersDream.com

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I've owned a dog for a "backyard breeder" and another from a puppy mill. The German Shepherd was one of the most poorly bred specimens you could find and had severe hip problems. The puppy mill dog had knee problems and was nearly 3X as large as she should have been against the breed standard. Both were wonderful pets that I was privileged to own. The heck with how closely they conformed to the breed standard in the cosmetic department, but I would happily string up their breeders from the highest tree for breeding animals with no thought to their health or the suffering they endured as a result of their pure greed for $$$.

Unfortunately neither the AKC (nor the equivalent here in the UK) spend enough money educating the public on how to choose a breeder for whatever breed someone desires.

Someone can spend days researching breeds and not once find any information about how puppy mills and their retail supply chain works, for example. You can find information that says "make sure you can see the mother of the pups" or "a dog is not just for Christmas", but generally there is no advice that will educate people that the "backyard breeder" is as poor a choice as a puppy mill breeder.

So I'm older and wiser now and I would never consider buying a puppy from any breeder other than someone whose dogs are registered with the AKC (or national equivalent), has a history of showing their dogs, and is an active member of the breed club. I'm actually more picky about the breeder than I am about the dog! And I want them to grill me and quiz me and ask all sorts of questions - not just tell me how much the dog will cost. Even when I got Rudi at 1-1/2 years old, his breeder actually came to my house for an inspection. No way was she going to place Rudi in a situation that was not up to her standards. I want a breeder who is as choosy about where their puppies go as I am about them.

When most people decide they want a puppy they want it NOW. Finding the right breeder(s) oftentimes means being added to a waiting list and waiting months and months for a puppy. Most people are unwilling to wait, unfortunately.

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Thank you Bradl for always educating us.

Both of mine are AKC registered and have been altered. Both of our breeders we found here on the CTCA board. Both of ours look very similar, yet very different. Both were chosen by the breeder to become "pet-only" dogs because of verying reasons. Digger's ears are a little big, and his front legs a little short, and Jazz had adult teeth not come in, so not only could they not be shown, they were not specimens for improving the breed, so therefore not bred either.

They are the pefect little Cairns, and are gorgeous to us; however, we really respected the Breeders explaining to us why they were chosen to be "pet-only", and how they wanted to improve there lines. Both of their parents (unrelated) have had best in breed wins here in the SW, and we are proud of them.

We love them just the way there are, and never had any intention of breeding them once we understood more about protecting the breed they are.

Ang.

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Brad, Please don't apologize for getting on a soap box. My hat is off to anyone who speaks out in defense of our innocent dogs. This is a much bigger problem than where or even if, a pet dog is registered. Our best weapon is educating ourselves and each other, and speaking out when ever we can. It is a complicated issue about "rights". On one side we have the "right" to make money and organize any registry that we want, and on the other we have the "rights" of the animals and the people who buy them. It is a major war, but every time someone listens a small battle is won. KEEP TALKING ! TheWolf

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  • 1 month later...

Bravo Cairnmania,

I totally agree with you.

Coco is my first dog (in 10 years) and, like others, I bought her from a backyard breeder. Right now she is 1 year 10 month old and the poster of a healthy dog. The lady gave me a sample package of Science Diet and CKC registration papers.

I research the breed, I try to find the best wheaton Cairn dog I could for my pre-teen daughter (she has staight A just because she REALLY wants this dog) but I didn't know the importance of acquiring an AKC register dog (back that time, just 1 1/2 ago, AKC=show dogs)

I been reading this wonderful forum for the last 1 1/2. Now I know about so many things of this marvelous breed. About the hand stripping, the best shampoo, about food brand, WDJ's 2006 top approved dry dog foods, about the history of the breed, etc...

And for the person who wrote the first post. Your dog looks as beautiful as mine. A truly Cairn to me, you probably made the same mistake I made but...your going to love her so so so much.

BTW- This is my first post !!!!!!!!

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Brad, thanks. Well said

I think the issue is education. I have three Cairns from three different breeders. When I was looking for them AKC was just a starting point.

I went to dog shows so I could see what a good Cairn looked like, how they move....see all the differences. But I do admit the first dog my hubby and I bought was an Irish Setter he didn't have papers because the sire was from Germany but I saw both parents. He was a wonderful dog. But now 26 years later I would start with AKC if I wanted a specific breed or temperment. Learn about health concerns and what I need to look for. Here is Nappy our setter great with my kids but I got him as a pet and that is what he was.

post-291-1174863952_thumb.jpg

I think looking at the home the dog is coming from is important. Learning about the breed you are getting is important so you can ask the correct health and temperment questions.

All dogs should be loved but not all dogs should be bred.

I like the AKC because it provides us with minimun standards, it is up to the buyer to look deeper and make sure you are getting the dog you want. I think Breed Clubs like CTCA prove to be one of the best sources or guide for prospective buyers. I know the information on this site is outstanding.

Liz

Rebel, Hammurabi, Sugar, Dirty Harry, Paint, Duncan and Saffron

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I can say I thought (assumed ?) I was buying a AKC pup, and he is ACA.....I think I'm a pretty smart person who's emotions where running high ? I have absolutely no regret buying Toby. I was disappointed when I found out he couldn't compete in Earth Dog events only to then find a string here leading me the way to be able to regitster the "other" way with AKC. With his ACA papers, how do I find out about his "heritage" ?

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