Cairns, squirrel and barking

[Sam I Am]

I need suggestions please. We have very large pines at the back of our yard .. Perfect for squirrels. Sam is totally and I mean totally obsessed with these things. He completely zones out to any command to come and stop barking. If I lived in the country I would let him bark his head off but I don’t think the neighbours would approve. He runs back and forth between the trees chasing the squirrels, while barking furiously. It pretty much wrecks my enjoyment of being in the garden. I refuse to use any kind of collar that causes pain or discomfort as my neighbour puts on her dog. He barks when he forgets and gets a shock causing him to scream in pain! Horrible..I would never do that to my dogs. But beyond the hose on jet which does work, but that means and I don’t get anything done in the garden. Suggestions?...

[Dianne]

This can be annoying and challenging...

Have you tried "Pet Corrector" ? Pet Corrector works by emitting a harmless hiss of air to interrupt barking... 

We have used this to interrupt unwanted behavior, jumping on the coffee table, used once and Katie never jumped up again. Now if we see an unwanted behavior we just show the canister to her, don't even need to "toot" it! 

Our SPCA leaders carry it to break up rambunctious dog pile ups in our Sunday Socials of 12 small dogs.

Your neighbor is cruel:  shock causing him to scream in pain! Horrible.

Many many years ago our first Westie, Wini, was a barker. We purchased a shock /vibrating collar with variable levels. BUT BEFORE WE PUT IT ON THE DOG,  I  PUT IT ON MY HUSBAND TO TEST, a gentle vibration, no shock. We wanted to distract her, not cause pain! She wore it once, barked, she looked surprised. After that if she she started to go into bark mode, I would grab the collar and show it to her and she would stop barking. Never had to wear it again!

Best of luck!

 

[sanford]

You are describing Ruffy to a "T"!

I've written here how he would scale 4-5 feet up the side of a tree, after a squirrel, while barking his head off... And I've had folks reprimand us because his barking "spoiled" the peace and tranquility of the park for them. Squirrels (and cats and motorcycles) were his frenzied obsessions from age 3, when I adopted him and I doubt if the inbred "prey drive" of our cairns can ever be over-ridden.    

Parting the Red Sea might be easier, yet, sometime between the ages of 5 and now, (at age 12 ), the barking stopped. I wish I could tell you when, so this is probably not helpful.

i agree with not using a shock collar. Would a soft muzzle be kinder? Idaho Cairns, who sadly, is no longer with us, used to successfully short circuit problem behavior by tossing a baseball cap in his cairns' direction, but having to do that all afternoon is not a good solution either.

[Sam I Am]

That prey drive is amazing! I even waved a piece of meat close to him  but no, he wanted the fresh off the hoof one in the tree. They are little killing machines I swear. Jock by the age of one or two decided the effort wasn’t worth while. Sam would be in the next province if he was loose  and chasing furry creatures! I hope Sanford he does grow out of it! Dianne I will research the Pet Corrector...Chuck  no doubt would have mentioned the cap thing. 

[Kathryn]

Oh dear...here I was setting up next Saturday's Cairn Zoom (please join - noon CDT - see Clubs), looked out the windows to see Steve walking Angus, and heard that shrill loud shriek...Angus saw a squirrel go up the tree, and he was on the chase (til the end of his leash anyway). I wish I knew what to do, because now the dogs join me on the screen porch and will bark at both squirrels and rabbits in the yard. And yes, I worry about the neighbors.

The pet corrector does work for inside barking, but I seem to forget to take it into the yard.  One thing we do that really works: We get rid of the squirrels, at least the ones around our yard. Over the course of a summer our neighbor across the street will trap about 20, and we trap an equal amount.  It isn't something that you can do only once though -- already I have seen the squirrels here making more squirrels, and a couple little ones chasing each other up and down the tree trunk. But in addition to annoying the dogs, they chew on my house, dig in the garden, eat the vegetables, and generally make a mess. So we try to keep ther vermin in line.

I guess that only works around your house though.  Living in the city, we still run into lots and lots and lots of squirrels on the walk...sometimes we see a tree with three or four nests in it -- a squirrel condo tree.  I wish the coyotes would eat more of them.  Hmmpf.

[bradl]

We found a sit or down stay to be incompatible with barking (more or less). However to get to that point will likely require a leash, suspension of your gardening *enjoyment* while you do the training, and up to a year   The main issue is they aren't listening to us!

Easiest way not requiring performance of an incompatible act is to give *one* hiss or "SHHHH" then immediately on the inevitable next bark silently grab Sam and toss him gently but disdainfully into the house and return to the yard and carry on for a half hour or so. Lather, rinse, repeat. Report back next year.  

For (possibly) faster results I personally would let him drag a leash, give him the one opportunity to SHHHH, then give him *one* "DOWN" and one second (literally) to comply. Failing compliance I'd silently, implacably stomp on the leash to force the down. I'd only make him hold it for maybe five seconds and release with huge praises. I would only do this about three times before I'd toss him back in the house (it's hard work for both of you) so you can enjoy your outside time. This can still take a very long time to get to the point where he will stop doing something voluntarily and take direction.

If you are committed to R+ exclusively then you'll have to try something else.

 

 

[Sam I Am]

Yes Brad will try to be more diligent and won’t give up. The little stinker knows how long his leash is and the speed of my approach, giving time to gallop away to the next tree! I wish I had a dumb Cairn ...but Sam is to smart for his fuzzy britches. In obedience school he was the star student..but outside obedience is pretty much non existent.plus I am a huge sucker...he just has to look at me, raise a paw and touch me , stare with those baby brown  eyes and ..well I am compliant  to his wish. It’s tough having a manipulative smart terrier.. will do the leash thing and toss into the house[gently]

Edited May 3, 2020 by Sam I Am

[Hillscreek]

Honestly I don't know what I'd do if I lived in an urban area with a dog whose job it is to bark at possible prey. I will say that it is extremely annoying to hear someone else's or even your own dog barking and barking whether in town or in the country. I guess I might try pet corrector.

 At home or wherever my Angus was restrained he barked furiously at anything moving. I did similar to Brad. I said that's enough and put him by himself for a while. I wasn't very successful. Very thankful no close neighbors. Eventually (a year or more at least) I got so I could let him bark a couple of times and then say that's enough and most of the time it he would grumble and then quit. 

In our large yard he had "his place" where he could dig, and generally do whatever he wanted. He was tethered on a long swivel line wearing a harness. People don't use fences in our area and a cairn is about the right size for a coyote snack. He could see me work in the veggie garden and I could see him. He rarely barked then. Too busy or tired I think. It's really hard work trying to dig up an old tree by the roots or burying a bone after a good chew. He had to stop and get a drink and rest. As he got older he barked less but never really quit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rubysmom]

Our Ruby basically ‘sees red’ when she has it in her mind to bark at something - people, other dogs, coyotes, rabbits, and random noises.  Since our neighbors are not able to see how adorable she is, their patience is probably wearing pretty thin.

She’s so rude when she’s out! She will not listen to anything and distracting her, other than with a bomb or large freight train (which she would probably bark at) is fairly impossible to get her off the hunt. I don’t think she even remembers we exist. 
We have tried pet corrector, ball cap, pillow, vibrating collar, and a device that emits a high pitch sound. Those all work temporarily and then she scoffs at it. 
Someone here mentions soft muzzle maybe that’s next... other than sending her to puppy boot camp I’m not sure what else to do. She is so smart: gets all other commands and tricks - but no barking.... forget it!

If you got anything else - I will try it!

[Sam I Am]

In the summer we use the hose on jet...he just sees it and stops. Also when you let Ruby out in the yard have an attached leash that drags behind her. She will catch on real quick when you can grab it and say no.

[bradl]

Similar to and/or in addition to a drag lead ... for squirrel barking or when fence-running with the huskies next door gets loud I give them one 'Quiet"; if noncompliant they get one "Let's go" which is their call to the house for a Charlee Bear; if noncompliant I *silently* walk purposefully out and calmly (and still silently) scoop them up and bring them into the house, close the door, dump them on the floor and walk (silently) away. No Charlee Bear!

[rubysmom]

Thank you for advice.... we are starting to use a lead outside.  We don’t have a yard but we have a piece of grass she goes to and a large deck that opens out on to a wash (we are in Arizona).  We have to do the lead thing because our 11 month old puppy can out run us in one of her favorite past times: chase. 

[sanford]

Super Soaker water pistol?

[Toto-lee Cairn]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading these replies, as Toto has turned out to be quite vocal, and it drives us mad, too.  We live on a large lot, surrounded by trees that serve as an expressway from one home to the next.  I have noticed that if the squirrels remain in the trees, Toto watches them intently.  Let one come down the trunk, land on the ground, and be in the yard, proper, and Toto lets loose like a back-firing engine.  Like ALL of you, I have tried ALL of the suggestions here, some with more success than others.

Problem with the water hose?  He LOVES it. I end up with a very wet dog.

Down position?  Yeah, right.  We flunked that in Puppy Training -- sometimes, if I use the right tone of voice, he will comply. The right tone of voice changes almost as often as his whims.  Toto decides if it's the tone to which he'll choose to respond.  I've thought about my 'Teacher Look,' which my daughter says I still give her.

Distractions?  There are none.  It used to be that if he espied a deer, he'd stop just long enough, to do a 180 and bark at the deer.  That lasted until one snorted at him, stamped its hoof, and Toto ran behind me, as if to say, 'OK, sick 'em Momma.'  Now he ignores deer.  (Thank God, or I am afraid he'd be down the street and out of sight.  Zero to sixty in three seconds.

Brad's suggestion of a warning, and then being removed from the environment works.  It works, however, better for my husband -- why are all children like that?   I will scoop him up, walk into the house, and into the Laundry Room, tell him, 'Quiet!," and close the gate.  He sulks, but is, gratefully, quiet.  Until . . . I turn the corner, am out of sight, and then it's one, loud, commanding 'Momma, get back here, now, bark.'

Being removed from the environment for undesirable behavior seems to work best with Toto as he always wants to be with us.