DNA tests?

[Kathryn]

Our little Angus, now 9 months old, is growing into a lovely little dog.  He doesn't look exactly like a cairn, though he looks mostly like a cairn. Missing is the distinct "stop" on his head/muzzle (though he definitely has those "my what big teeth you have grandma!" teeth), he seems a little too long, and his coat reminds us of a golden retriever, wavy and soft. 

DH wants to do a DNA test and see if something popped into his family tree a while ago.  He has researched them and found several, ranging in price from $45 to about $200. I know there were posts about these tests a while ago, and discussions about their veracity.  

Have any of you done tests on your dogs, and were you satisfied by/trusted the results?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Kathryn

[Hillscreek]

This is an interesting question Kathryn.  When we were breeding retrievers I sometimes wished I could know more about why the occasional pup was not like his/her litter mates. I don't think DNA tests would help much with this - see attached AKC comments https://www.akc.org/breeder-programs/dna/dna-resource-center/frequently-asked-questions/.

For me if the major use of the DNA program would be to determine the parentage of the litter. Sometimes the dad is not who you think and sometimes a litter can be sired by two different males.

My red brindle Angus was quite different from his three wheaten brothers in color and body type. In his case it was easy to see he took after his mother's side of the family. He looked so like her and not at all like his dad. Not much was known about her as she came from Scotland to Vermont only two generations back. The early Scottish history was lost in the mists.

I think that like in humans the genetic inheritance is more complicated than these tests can determine. When we were breeding even though we did a lot of studying and had first hand knowledge of live and recent dogs from the pedigrees we still could not guarantee what the pups would be like except in the most general terms. I'm sure most breeders would say the same.

So your Angus may have inherited genes from generations back which came together in him.

What does your Angus's breeder say? Do you know anything about his siblings?

[bradl]

No experience here. I felt like this article does a pretty good job of laying out some strengths and weaknesses of several options: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/behavior/instincts-dna/dog-dna-tests-mixed-results/

A less-than-ideal stop is not uncommon. Particularly nice heads will have one of course, but as the saying goes even the best dog will have faults. It may just be that head-shape is not Angus' best feature. Doesn't seem to have stopped (heh) that face from being adorable  

[Kathryn]

Hillscreek - alas, we don't know Angus' breeder. He was a rescue pup from Cairn Rescue USA, and came out of a mill around Missouri. He was said to be cairn by the puppy mill owner,  and he arrived in rescue with 2 other pups- all from different litters. Our vet thought it was pretty clear the breeder had lied about his age and he was much younger than stated. The records also stated he had been neutered (!) and he does not have visible testicles. Hence we are traveling to reproductive specialists to determine if indeed he has been cut or whether said equipment is still hidden inside.

We think he is adorable (thanks,  Brad) and he certainly acts like a goofball puppy cairn. His older brother Oban likes him and we are often entertained by their romps and zoomies. We are definitely not giving him back. Just curious where his quirks came from.

 

 

 

 

[Sam I Am]

As my large animal vet once told me, genetics (in a horse , so perhaps same in dogs) can rear it’s distinctive genes going back 7 generations. Given that Angus  is from unknown parentage, and no registration records to trace back, who knows who dated who ...perhaps there is a bit of Scottie in Angus given his longer snoot. And what the heck a Scotsman is still Scottish regardless who invaded the country centuries ago. He is adorable.

 

[Hillscreek]

Yes it is the same with dogs and maybe all living things. No matter how thorough one is looking into the background of two dogs one wants to breed there's no guarantee that all (or indeed any) of the pups will be what you expect. When we were breeding the odd/strange/different one that appeared people's litters was called a "throw back", meaning it's inheritance was from a dog or dog generations back.

In a small way I saw this with my Angus. He was very different from his three wheaten brothers. In color, in body type, in head shape. But with him it was easy to see why. He took after his mother. But if it were his grandmother or earlier who looked like that we might not have known.

Personally I think your Angus's huge teeth are a giveaway. Are there any other terriers that have teeth like a cairn? Plus in the old days a cairn's ability to do the job was more important than what he/she looked like.

Your Angus is certainly very cairn appearing. And very attractive.

You may never know his genetic story but you and Oban will always have a best buddy!

 

[hheldorfer]

It certainly wouldn't hurt to learn more about Angus' lineage but I don't know why you'd want to.  Adorable is adorable, no matter what breed (or mix thereof).