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Sam I Am

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Love the pure joy radiating from both the girls.🤗

Until one has loved an animal, a part of  one's soul remains unawakened.  - Anatole France

Adventures with Sam &Rosie

 

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They still look great Idaho Cairns. Look after yourself. Us older folk have to learn to take it a bit easier. Bonnie and Sammi are the best caregivers you could ever have!

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Your cairn kids are so precious... Just like all kids on Christmas morning... Scattering the wrappings all over the place, without stopping to read the cards!😜

Sorry to know that you've been under the weather since June - That is a long siege and I hope you are well on the way to recovery by now, and that you'll be able to celebrate a happy Thanksgiving with your girls and your family. Your wisdom and good cheer have been missed here. Welcome back, Idaho!

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FEAR THE CAIRN!

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Guest dog person
19 hours ago, Idaho Cairns said:

I agree--FYI, Sammi and Bonnie are fed Kirkland Signature kibble from Costco and all the table scraps they can beg from Dad (Mom is a spoiled sport) at dinnertime.  They appear to be thriving.  There's the research from my lab.

Excellent!  An AAFCO product (meets standards)  🙂

I'm confused, I am not against kibble or cooked food.   You may have me confused with the OP.

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No confusion at all.  AAFCO as label readers have done a great service to those who are looking for adequate food for their pets.
My response, an old one I might add, is to moderate that "scientific research" conclusion that gets thrown around when, in fact, no such thing exists.  When it comes to blanket statements about what is "best" for the nutritional  needs of most dogs and dog breeds one has to be careful--we really don't know.
Probably shouldn't be hanging on to this argument because it is old, on going, and can't really be "proven" at this point.

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Guest dog person
3 minutes ago, Idaho Cairns said:

No confusion at all.  AAFCO as label readers have done a great service to those who are looking for adequate food for their pets.
My response, an old one I might add, is to moderate that "scientific research" conclusion that gets thrown around when, in fact, no such thing exists.  When it comes to blanket statements about what is "best" for the nutritional  needs of most dogs and dog breeds one has to be careful--we really don't know.
Probably shouldn't be hanging on to this argument because it is old, on going, and can't really be "proven" at this point.

Yes, I agree that we should move on....

BUT, there is science based veterinary medicine research that provides solid information.   Veterinarians that have gone to school for decades, continued their education, examined thousands of animals.

That is who I choose to listen to.    Too much misinformation on the internet.   

Why does someone open a topic for discussion and then reject all opinions that differ from theirs?   I don't get it.

I am glad that you are feeling better and that your dogs are well, they are lucky dogs.

I'm done, I promise 🙂

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Thank you!  I just posted an article that might be of interest.  That was all..  it was not started as a  debate just an article. Period.  I am also so done . Hopefully future Postings won’t create this turmoil of who is right and who is wrong.   

Until one has loved an animal, a part of  one's soul remains unawakened.  - Anatole France

Adventures with Sam &Rosie

 

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Idaho, you and the girls have been missed!  I hope you're getting better and we'll see more videos of Bonnie and Sammie this holiday season.

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6 hours ago, dog person said:

BUT, there is science based veterinary medicine research that provides solid information.   Veterinarians that have gone to school for decades, continued their education, examined thousands of animals.

That is who I choose to listen to.    Too much misinformation on the internet.   🙂

Before Bradl shuts down this thread😱, I'll risk jumping in. With good reason, the topic of nutrition/food has come up often on this site. Over time, a number of members have stated that until fairly recently, nutrition was always given only cursory attention in veterinary schools. I have no idea whether or not that is true. I hope that isn't the case,  and I'm not reporting it as fact - and for the sake of all our pets, I would prefer to be proven wrong, but that has been the widely held view - that our vets were not a reliable source of knowledge on this topic. I'd like to think Vet schools are more up-to-speed now, and that older vets have kept up with advances in this field,* but like most folks, I just don't know. As DP says, "there is too much misinformation on the internet", which brings us hapless uprights back to square one. As Idaho says: "When it comes to blanket statements about what is "best" for the nutritional needs of most dogs and dog breeds one has to be careful--we really don't know." The most recent example in the news being the conflicting data re the "no grain vs. grain" theory as it relates to canine cardiac health.

* Vets have frequently been charged with promoting whatever food the Sales Reps push on them/supply them with, which is a clever marketing strategy. Many vet offices have bags and cans on display which always makes me wonder how I'd feel if my primary care doc was displaying Dannon yogurt in his office.

 

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FEAR THE CAIRN!

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1 hour ago, sanford said:

Before Bradl shuts down this thread😱

Tempted :) 

Oof, this is why I put dog food in the same category as religion and politics as no-go zones for me, personally. 

I am very interested in other peoples opinions about stuff. Turns out though that I am not especially interested in a persons's opinions about another person's opinions. I find the apparently insatiable needs to Be Right, Win The Internet, and Have The Last Word tiresome. :( 

1 hour ago, sanford said:

makes me wonder how I'd feel if my primary care doc was displaying Dannon yogurt in his office

For me, hungry, most likely. Then I'd run out for some Chobani :P 

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33 minutes ago, bradl said:

Tempted :) 

Oof, this is why I put dog food in the same category as religion and politics as no-go zones for me, personally. 

I am very interested in other peoples opinions about stuff. Turns out though that I am not especially interested in a persons's opinions about another person's opinions. I find the apparently insatiable needs to Be Right, Win The Internet, and Have The Last Word tiresome. :( 

For me, hungry, most likely. Then I'd run out for some Chobani :P 

And, in choosing Chobani, you would positively effect the budget  of the state of Idaho, where Chobani is made, and we need the revenue!  There, because of you Bradl, we have managed to turn the thread into "politics"!  Gosh that was easy.

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Guest dog person
11 hours ago, bradl said:

Tempted :) 

Oof, this is why I put dog food in the same category as religion and politics as no-go zones for me, personally. 

I am very interested in other peoples opinions about stuff. Turns out though that I am not especially interested in a persons's opinions about another person's opinions. I find the apparently insatiable needs to Be Right, Win The Internet, and Have The Last Word tiresome. :( 

For me, hungry, most likely. Then I'd run out for some Chobani :P 

Yes, but what if you believed that a pet owner might act based on an opinion read without consulting a vet that has examined their dog and you believe that could potentially cause harm to an animal.

Just be quiet?   Okay, you got it!

A lot of folks are anti-vet,  also homeopathic vets are a business too and sell all kinds of supplements and stuff on their sites.

PS: Another site I find helpful   http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/petfoodology/

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To be droll, it has been my observation based entirely on vet waiting room visits, that if we take our Vet's advice we would all be happily feeding our dogs Hill's Science Diet and our dogs would be the perfect weight, happy, healthy, and we would not be having to turn to the internet where we would be subjected to trying to figure out what the some 3,500,000 hits were all about because we have our answer.  Science Diet would be as big as General Motors and this pathetic search for the perfect food for our Poopsie would, thankfully, be over.
I guarantee you that if we continue to bat this around we will become lost souls on our search for the famous "Guiltless Diet", the pet diet we choose that keeps our dogs in perfect trim, healthy, happy, an which allows us to enjoy a full night's sleep knowing we have done the best that we can do as pet owners.  After all we owe our pets so much since they and their diet provide us with so many opportunities to express our opinions, to huff and puff about "organics", make recommendations, be offended, be offensive, to load up our "I told you so!" ammunition chests.  Fair warning however, just as soon as we all convert or revert back to Science Diet there will be an opinion piece that will suggest that a 49% holistic diet combined with 10% owner cooked, 32% raw Afghan sheep liver, and balance in High Plains Winter Wheat kibble is the ideal diet for King Charles Spaniels located in Northwest Georgia, the opinion is based on the "findings" of two long retired little old ladies that taught home ec  in the 60's and then the battle will renew--opinion on top of opinion, undermined by more opinion, all roiling to produce an internet concrete mixer load of gunk as we search for the "truth"

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Guest dog person

I have never had a veterinarian that I go to recommend any specific brand of dog food.

They do ask what I am feeding my dogs as they appear to be in good condition.     They make a notation in the record and don't comment further.    I imagine if they had concerns, they would.

The only exception was pets that needed prescription food due to a medical condition (bladder stones) or (kidney disease) or to rule out food sensitivities.    Even then I was given choices between 2 or 3 different brands.    The vets also took the time to answer my questions and explain why a prescription diet was the best option for the dogs specific problem.

Our current favorites are Fromm Classic Adult and Purina Pro Plan Focus Salmon as the base, like your dogs they get a little of this and that too.  Scrambled egg, boiled chicken meat, etc.     Just kibble doesn't seem like it's enough, however I am sure many dogs do fine.

Whatever works.

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19 minutes ago, dog person said:

Just kibble doesn't seem like it's enough, however I am sure many dogs do fine. 

Whatever works.

There you go--opinion on top of opinion with a conclusion general enough to support each opinion!  Welcome to the wonderful world of canine nutrition!

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Guest dog person

But, I discuss my opinions with a veterinarian that has examined my pets and act accordingly.

Every comment here is an opinion, that's what forums are all about.

Not all dogs are the same, different things work.    

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Certainly not interested in adding fuel to the fire: too much fire in this country right now anyway.  But I would like to point out that, even in visiting a vet or doctor, you are asking for a medical OPINION.  And, should you choose to doubt or challenge that opinion, you can visit a second medical professional for a SECOND OPINION.  These opinions may or may not be based on scientific fact, educational learning, personal observation, or "druthers." I have seen doctors for issues with my own health and received advice that directly contradicted the latest in medical theory and practice. 

And, of course, medicine is a "practice": the "practice of medicine." Information is fluid, and what was once considered true or right is often no longer. 

We each have to find our way through this world of too much information/too many choices using our own education, instinct, discretion, and "druthers."  It's really hard, and I am not going to challenge others who make a choice I would not. Whether feeding their dog, feeding themselves, asking for an opinion or suggestion, or deciding whether or not to follow the advice.

When I have made my choices, I hope they will be respected rather than challenged.  I promise to do the same for each of you.

I myself continue to make some bad food choices, allbeit tasty ones.  I try to regulate my diet and take care of my health, and I try to do the same for my dog. Probably I fail more often than I would like to confess. But I do hope you all understand I operate generally in my own best interest, and even more so in the interest of the dog and people I love. 

I try to remember that each of you also operates in your own best interest, and that of the dog and people you love. 

Let's leave snarkiness to other venues. I value Cairntalk too much to see it here.

 

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  • 2 months later...
Guest dog person

Update   02.06.19

Federal Judge in Wisconsin Sides with Champion Petfoods® by Rejecting Claim that the ORIJEN Brand Dog Foods are Unsafe  Judge Dismisses the  Lawsuit with Prejudice 

https://www.championpetfoodsfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/186965036_v-1_Champion-Wins-Summary-Judgement-in-Loeb-Case-E.-Dist.-of-WI-262019-Loeb-Case-Press-Release.pdf

 

https://www.championpetfoodsfacts.com/legal-response/?fbclid=IwAR08wnjttis5QLoyiG9NLiQUNXZR0930SGlEJqJDrlkIwGhlb8qqI4TLW40

 

 

 

 

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