watergirl, hello I'm back again

[watergirl]

I always said i'd never have an aggressive dog but along came Addie who is a darling when no one is bothering her food or messing with certain parts of her body. she hates having eyes wiped out or anything having to do woth her bottom. Sometimes for cleanliness sake you have to tough these area. She will also tolerate bathing but goes crazy if you try to try her. this involves not obly barring of teeth and growling but vicious biting that will continue until you stop. this is in full cujo mode. i have grabbed her and tried to flip her, i have smacked her and said no, i have tied her to a bedrail and put fireplace gloves on so i don't get hurt and i have kenneled her and ignored her when done. if she wasnot so good otherwise i;d give up. no one wants to deal with this and i find it hard to consider putting her down. i have had some trainer time with her too. any suggestions.

[Guest dog person]

Keep her away from children and other dogs.     All bets are off if she goes after a small animal.

Take this aggressive trait seriously,  consider a muzzle for certain activities such as trips to the vet, unexpected visitors such as repairmen in the home

Use the muzzle for grooming and such.

Keep her on leash when outside unless in a fenced in yard.

It's a challenge, 90% of the time my cairn is an angel.

But, you never know when these dogs will snap.

See my posts. My cairn caused a serious injury to my other dog.

PS:  I have never tried using a trainer, can't afford it,

I can barely keep up with the routine vet bills.

Edited May 12, 2018 by dog person

[Dianne]

Oh dear, this is troubling.

Does Addie act this way at the groomer? I am always amazed that dogs that start to give a little attitude at grooming  are good as gold at the groomer! Until then, a muzzle.

If you cannot afford training or trainer I would call my vet, my breeder, my Cairn club, my local AKC club, SPCA., local shelter etc and ask for help. They just might know someone who could be of help for little or no cost. These folks are dedicated to animals and will reach out to help.

As a former member of our local Westie club, I worked with troublesome Westie rescues before they went to their new homes.  And one thing I always recommended when we did place them in their new homes was that the new owner go to beginning obedience classes. This was to insure that the dog and the owner would establish consistent interactions and language.

I am presently in beginning obedience classes with our first Cairn puppy. It is amazing how much I have forgotten, needed to relearn and refresh. We have been fortunate to have had the same trainer since 1990s for our Westies. Some training techniques have changed. 50+ years with dogs and I still felt that I needed to be trained again! 

And in the course of training classes, you can pick up tidbits for handling deviant behaviors.

Wishing you the best!

[pkcrossley]

sounds like you are using good tricks. the muzzle is a great idea, you only have to teach her to let you put it on (treats).

if she will let you bathe he  seems like she is almost there. if this is the only problem and she is otherwise good it is surprising that anybody would consider "putting her down." obviously you can't leave her unsupervised in any situation that could set her off, but overall this doesn't sound like the most dire situation we have heard of. i hope you get results with the techniques you are using, and keep on working with her. 

 

[watergirl]

She is actually a real barker and sounds horrible but when she finally comes up to you on her terms, she is wagging her tail and very friendly. she is mostly fine woth other dogs and kids but she is very reactive. If kids make a lot of noise on bikes, skateboards etc she hides. She is also fine with other dogs even gigger dogs as long as they don't lunge at her. She was attacked by larger dogs twice and it really scared her. i also wonder what everyone's feelings about a bark collar. Addie barks for no reason and whenever she hears any noise. She used to sleep with me at night but I could stand the constant interruptions in sleep. She now sleeps in her kennel with a blanket over top and she is quiet as a mouse. I have 3 cats in the house and she is really good with them, so she does have good traits. She is a wonderful companion, always by my side and responds well to basic training. BITING AND BARKING ARE MY TWO BIG PROBLEMS.

 

 

[Dianne]

Anti Bark collars...

There are now several types, even one that spray citronella rather than vibrate/shock.

Funny story...

We had a barks-a-lot Westie. Our house had a fenced front yard. She knew to get to the fence and start barking where we could not get to her in a timely manner.This was many years ago and anti bark /shock collars were not around except for training hunting dogs...It was over a hundred dollars...we were desperate. 

We ordered it and turned it to the lowest vibration/shock. But before I would place it on Wini, I put it on my husband. He assured me that it was just a gentle vibration. It was heavy and when we placed it on Wini her head almost thudded to the floor. 

We were determined so each morning for a few days we attached it to her neck and let her out. Yep, it stopped the barking.  It would vibrate after one bark. She would look back at the house with a concerned look.

We quickly got used to the quiet and forgot to put the collar on. She started to bark..we reached for the collar and went out the door....holding up the collar...she saw it and stopped immediately. 

From then on if she started to bark, we would grab the collar and show it to her across the yard and the barking would stop! Never had to put it on her again!

With Westie #2, Miss Pip, we very briefly used a citronella spray collar. Lightweight and worked fine.  There might even be better ones out now. Check with you doggie friends and they just might have one or similar buried in their doggie drawer and you can try it out.

Cheers!

 

 

 

[watergirl]

Thanks Dianne, that is a funny story.

[Idaho Cairns]

You either need a bark prevention device or you have to take the time and effort to stop the barking yourself, which you can do if you dedicate time to getting involved.  Cairns are smart and learn quickly but any lesson needs to be reinforced with action--your action.  "No Bark!" was one of the first commands our dogs learned and we still find ourselves using it to corral unwanted barking on occasion.
First you have to distract the Cairn from what ever it is barking at--make the dog focus on you and then use that command--over and over and over until the dog understands that if it barks, you are going to approach the dog, touch the dog, or, as we did, grab its muzzle and force it to look at us while we demanded silence.  Repeated over and over EVERY time and the dog will learn.  I even threw things at the dogs to get their attention away from the object of the barking--usually a baseball cap. 
If you are persistent, you win.  Is it 100%?  Of course not--nothing stops the dog from barking when there is a knock on the door or a stray dog wanders on the deck but 90% of the unnecessary and unwanted barking has been eliminated.  Our Cairns do not and are no allowed to bark and our home is silent for the most part.
The biting thing is more serious and, again, it takes your involvement.  Start with hand feeding kibble, making sure the dog takes its food gently, get your hands around that mouth as much as you can so the dog is used to a human hand in its face.  Hand feeding (for awhile) imprints that "Humans Rule" rule in the dog's mind.  Also we never hesitated putting our Cairns on their side if they misbehaved--especially as pups but as adults as well--but frankly we no longer have behaviors we need to discipline in our dogs so it has been years since our dogs had to be man handled.  We did use heavy gloves on a few occasions with our dogs--particularly in controlling their snapping while being groomed (yes, that hind end is a problem with Cairns) and we used gloves to the extent that we wouldn't hesitate to stick those gloved fingers in the dog's mouth or to grab the muzzle with very loud and very sharp "NO!" or "NO BITE" commands.  If the dog happened to bite its own tongue--all the better to teach soft mouth.  Again, you have to be persistent and very, very firm with your Cairn--they are like water in plumbing--if there is a place where they can escape, they will find it unless you, as Master, create the kind of atmosphere that keeps them self regulated--you teach "the rules" and you reinforce "the rules" and they learn those "rules" and, being smart little terriers, they remember "the rules".
Good luck, start it and stay with it and enjoy the peace and quiet.

[watergirl]

Thank you, that was very helpful

[sanford]

2 hours ago, Idaho Cairns said:

...they are like water in plumbing--if there is a place where they can escape, they will find it...

😀 Perfectly put, Idaho! I never heard this expression before, but it's a perfect description of the way a cairn's brain works!

[Dianne]

Very good!!!

I am keeping that for reference in case I need it in the future.

About distraction...at our training class, the instructor has a windex spray bottle with water available for use when pups decide to bark during class. 

11 1/2 month old Katie spends lots of time out on our house length deck that overlooks an open yard where squirrels and birds frequent. The squirrels are burying and digging up nuts followed by the birds. Katie will bark at them, even scream at them if they totally ignore her.  We keep 2 spray bottles close at hand, one set with the stream to "shoot" at the critters so they will leave and other at "spray" to distract Katie. Its working for now.  We are working on trying to coordinate NoBark and reward Quiet. Its a work in progress. 

As for the baseball cap, Katie loves baseball caps and my husband wears them daily. We have to be very careful with them as if Katie gets hold of one, she wants to remove the top button...next stop, the emergency room!!! Yes, we are working on Leave it and "Drop It". 

Don't laugh, but my husband used to leave his caps on the entrance table, but Katie jumped and jumped until she could grab a cap edge, soooo now the caps are resting on top of the lamp shade of the lamp on the entrance table. The things we do for these conniving creatures! 

Cheers all!

 

[Sam I Am]

Sam is just over a year now and takes great pleasure stealing caps, shoes, slippers. It’s a big game to him now...he wags his tail like a windmill, has a big smile on his face and runs around gleefully until we tell him to drop it...for most part now he does. Of course it doesn’t help that I am laughing my head off...really how can he take me seriously.