12 yr old Cairn and two Golden Retrievers

[Lawson Cairn]

A neighbor who lives around the corner from me has two adult Golden Retrievers.  He walks them in the same area where I walk my Cairn and each time the dogs see each other, trouble begins.

Admittedly my Cairn is frightened of the two bigger dogs who weigh 60 lbs each, compared to her weight of 17 lbs.  All are on leashes, but my dog barks and tries to lunge at the Goldens who start barking and lunging as soon as they see her.  I have made it clear that when I see them, I ask the owner to please take them to another street or wait until we can get out of their way.  Tonight he just stood there with his dogs, said nothing and would not move.  In order to avoid a huge confrontation, I had to walk with my Cairn out into oncoming traffic -- in the dark -- because I had no other place to go.  That, of course, put my dog and me in some danger and I admit I was really mad.

A bit of background:  My Cairn is a rescue.  I got her when she was five and she's now 12.  I have worked with several trainers and none of them have been successful is getting her to calm down around other dogs, especially large ones.  She was attacked three times by a previous Golden Retriever, whose owner could not control the dog and would let go of the leash.

I know I will run into the neighbor with the two Goldens again.  I am tempted to carry some kind of repellant spray to use the next time.  What do you suggest I do?

 

[Min D]

It sounds like you might want/ need to carry something- I’m not sure what. One of the things we saw and was suggested at one of our dog training classes was a can of compressed air. You may need to get your dog use to it, so she doesn’t’ get Freaked out by it when you may need to use it. It makes a sound that would frighten most dogs. It would be too late if one or both of them got a hold of her.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Min D

[remltr]

Lawson welcome to the forum.

From your statement it seems like you feel you have the right to have this space each time you meet the other dogs. I would suggest sharing this space every other time you meet. I imagine that it is a public area, so it would seem only fair that each have an equal opportunity to use the area.

I see people with dogs approaching me from time to time. I never leave the path that I am on, because my Cairn, Sassy, does not have issues with other dogs when on a walk. Some people with dogs who are approaching us see us and cross the street, whether they are snobs, don't like me and Sassy or are maybe they are fearful of their dog causing an issue, I don't know. But if I had a known issue with another dog, I would gladly cross the street and give the other person and their dog some space and expect the same courtesy from the other person from time to time.

Sorry if I misread your statement.

[Lawson Cairn]

Dear remltr:

sorry, but I think you did misunderstand.  I always move to the other side of the street if I see a dog that is not compatible with mine.  However, the owner of the two Golden’s wouldn’t budge, which left me with one choice to go out into the street into oncoming traffic.  He could have walked in three other directions.  Instead he stood there and did nothing.  Where I made my mistake was waiting for him after putting my dog in the house and tried to explain that my dog had been attacked three times by a Golden.  He refused to believe it and kept saying he was sure my dog would accept his Golden’s if we just walked over to them.  I was not taking that chance.

[hheldorfer]

Welcome to the forum!

My Cairn Buffy was attacked several times by other dogs too and developed a dislike for big dogs, so I understand your situation.  I think the owner of the Goldens is a bit of an ass for not being more understanding of the situation.  Unfortunately some people think their dogs can do no harm and refuse to accept the opinions of others. 

I don't know the geography of your neighborhood but is there a different route you can take or another time of day you could walk?  Or is the area to which you are referring an open 'dog park' area?  

Either way, I certainly don't blame you for not allowing your Cairn to approach the Goldens.  Better safe than sorry.

[sanford]

16 hours ago, Lawson Cairn said:

....my dog barks and tries to lunge at the Goldens who start barking and lunging as soon as they see her. ...I ask the owner to please take them to another street or wait until we can get out of their way.  Tonight he just stood there with his dogs and would not move. ...I had to walk into oncoming traffic -- in the dark ...and I admit I was really mad.

I have worked with several trainers and none of them have been successful is getting her to calm down around other dogs, especially large ones.  ... I am tempted to carry some kind of repellant spray to use the next time.  What do you suggest I do?

I have a similar situation with Ruffy and larger dogs. For all I know Ruffy might instigate the problem with his body language and if there are two large dogs, a conflict is guaranteed, but the question of "who started it" doesn't matter because the small size of our cairns puts them at a dangerous disadvantage.

Asking the other owner to wait, take another street, etc., probably won't work because 1) Many large dog owners are already on the defensive because of their negative encounters with non-dog lovers, and 2) You can't reason with unreasonable people.

I can understand why you are mad and these "large-dog" encounters have made me mad too and I was forced to develop "radar" as part of our routine on walks... Like driving a car, always looking ahead to anticipate oncoming traffic - in this case, large dogs. I was not happy to have to alter my behavior, cross the street, etc. to accommodate these jerks, but realistically, it kept Ruffy safe and before long, being alert on walks became second nature and I stopped feeling imposed upon. Even so, an encounter can take us by surprise, so I pick Ruffy up if I have to. If forced to pass by these dogs I make sure to keep my body between Ruffy and the others.

Although I resent these inconsiderate types, 😡I resolved to make a concerted effort to disguise my displeasure by resorting to (false) friendliness, acknowledging them in passing with a greeting, ruefully commiserating on our dog's behavior, exchanging pleasantries, etc. (I even compliment them on how handsome their dogs are)! We now have a nodding acquaintance and they have become more cooperative in reining in their dogs, sometimes even crossing the street when we approach! Not a perfect solution, but if being blatantly false and insincere with these people helps keep the dog safe and makes walks easier, it's worth it!

P.S. I tried a trainer as well, but have come to believe that many of our feisty cairns are hard wired not to back down if they perceive a larger dog as threat. I'm not against resorting to a spray, but if you've ever witnessed a conflict with 2, let alone 3 dogs, you'll know how impossible it is to aim anything at the furious, whirling tangle of fangs and claws. 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by sanford

[Sam I Am]

I for one am so tired of people with large dogs  saying oh no my dog won't hurt yours. As their 80 pound dog is galloping toward you at full speed teeth Showing and their hackles raised .I do the same thing I pick my dog up right away and position myself between the oncoming dog mean while yelling at the owner ,  get your bleep bleep bleep dog on a leash. For a while I did carry a cane or a horsewhip but I only have two hands and it proved to be more of a problem. I now totally avoid any areas where I see other dogs off leash and I am always on the alert. It is sad but I don't trust any other dog owners unless I totally get to know their dogs. In the end all it takes is a grip on the neck a shake and you've got a dead Cairn.

[LindaMC]

Another feisty cairn here who will not back down no matter how much training she's had.  My girl Maisie got herself in trouble a couple of times with our own big dog and because of that, I had to rehome my german shepherd, which was very hard for me and my husband.  Thankfully we made the right decision and both dogs are better for it.  I will cross the street if I see a large dog coming or just turn and walk the other way.  I want to avoid Maisie getting hurt because I know what a little stubborn diva she can be at times and do not want to see her get hurt.  

 

[pkcrossley]

a difficulty. but a classic cairn one. i think the goldens' owner can appreciate your genuine embarrassment and may completely believe that you are working on the problem. that might be a help in itself. beyond that there is always a possibility of improvement, but cairns have a few special considerations. some cairns have enough sense to back away from bigger dogs ,but i don;t personally think they are in the majority. cairns have very strong breeding toward their fighting and survival instincts and there are limits to what you or they can do about it apart from avoid embarrassing or dangerous situations altogether.

my cairn redmon was a crazy fighter --he wouldn't molest rabbits, but GSDs he thought should stand aside when he strutted down the street. the onlky thing that worked for me was straining training training to sit when we saw other dogs, and wait for a signal form me. this was extremely hard for him, and if he was 75% with it he was doing better than i thought. sit and stay on sight of dogs or people was the best tool i had. fortunately he developed a habit when he was older of heading the other way when he spotted another dog on the street --not, i think because he was afraid of them, but because he knew how much his behavior toward other dogs was exasperating to me. 

[Hillscreek]

The stand up and be ready to fight attitude of many (most?) cairn terriers is something they probably needed in the past when they were in small tight spaces in dens of animals that they were pushing out for the hunters waiting outside.

When I walked with Angus it always seemed to me that things were more tense when he was on the leash. Out running free he was more relaxed. When we met a dog in the fields - usually some kind of big hunting dog - pointer, retriever usually also off leash - they would do the semicircle approach and the sniff greeting and be on their ways This is not possible when walking in town and meeting another dog. Tensions can more easily mount - in the dogs and up through the leash to the owners.

Not sure a spray would be reliable - and what if you hit the owner? and do you have the legal right to spray someone else's dog?

I usually crossed the road, turned around, or took another route when I saw another dog of any size. I did a lot of the sit work that pk describes. That worked some of the time when a meeting couldn't be avoided. Living with dogs in urban areas is a challenge for all!

 

[Min D]

The compressed air that I mentioned , doesn’t really spray anything it just makes a sound.

[Lawson Cairn]

Thanks Min D!! Are you talking about the canned air that gets the dust out of a keyboard?

 

[Lawson Cairn]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful comments!!

[Lawson Cairn]

Thanks  Hillscreek!  You are right.  It is a challenge.  I have picked up my girl and positioned her on her back.  That does seem to shut her up!

[Min D]

5 hours ago, Lawson Cairn said:

Thanks Min D!! Are you talking about the canned air that gets the dust out of a keyboard?

 

Yes I’m pretty sure that was what he was using.

[sanford]

Oh, I thought you meant an air horn can, or canister, like the ones sold at Walmart, etc. I assume the blast of sound would startle the dogs and break up the fight, but I have no idea if it would be effective.

My cannister of "Dust Off" dust and lint remover gives a pretty feeble blast of air and the instructions say to hold it 3" -  4" away from object which would be hard to do if trying to deter a dog.

[Islander]

A friend of mine uses the compressed air with her schnoodle for barking. She sprays it in the air away from the dog, it makes a hissing sound that they don’t like. It stops Daisy barking, not sure if it would stop a lunging dog. It is called Pet Correct.

[Idaho Cairns]

I've been following the discussion and have come to the conclusion that you really ought to think about another direction to take in the matter of walking your Cairn--a whole new direction away from the neighbor with the Goldens.  I certainly wouldn't suggest you use any kind of spray against another persons dogs on a public sidewalk--on your own property, fine, you can protect your smaller dog but on any other place, you take on some real liability in attempting to stop another person's pets. 
I would re-route the walks to avoid the other neighbor's dogs if that is possible or I would risk a mutually agreed on close up meet and greet with the other dogs--it is risky, yes, but, sometimes Cairns are best described with the old adage that the bark is worse than the bite--Cairns put up a good show but often, in a close encounter with plenty of "butt sniffing" all the posed aggression goes away -- at least in my experience.  I have never had a Cairn that initiated an attack on another dog.
Another method we use when in this kind of situation is a tight leash--we simply do not allow the dogs the freedom to "attack", keeping them at arms length with no freedom of movement other than at our side and pace--using jerks and pressure of those leashes to cause the dog to focus on us.  Then, when the temptation is beyond us, give them enough slack to enjoy their walk.
I'd be surprised if a Golden Retriever actually did a vicious attack--they are usually pretty mellow dogs, kinda oafish and rambunctious, in a clownish sort of way--sort of the Will Ferrels of the dog world.

[Lawson Cairn]

Thanks Idaho.  I appreciate your thoughtful comments.  From now on I think I will pick up my Cairn ( on her back) and cross over to another street ( when I am not forced out into oncoming traffic).