Adopting a breeding bitch (fingers crossed!)

[hheldorfer]

It took less than a week after Buffy's passing before DH and I were checking adoption/rescue/shelter sites, looking for another Cairn.  The emotional balance of the household is completely out of whack without a Cairn around here.  Seriously - it's like all the energy was sucked out the front door, leaving a vacuum behind.  Ziggy has been great but, without Buffy around to motivate him, he's becoming complacent.  This place needs a Cairn reboot.

As luck would have it, a cousin of DH formerly lived next door to a Cairn breeder.  Long story short, DH got in touch with the breeder today.  She has puppies available but also has three breeding bitches who have been retired, ages 8-9.  She was delighted when DH told her we were interested in one of her breeding girls.  We're planning to see them on Thanksgiving weekend and - assuming we are approved as proper Cairn parents - we (and Ziggy) will choose a Cairn girl to be picked up at a later date.  (She will be spayed prior to adoption.)

A puppy would be wonderful but, after having an honest discussion about it, DH and I came to the conclusion we're not up to the challenge right now.  DH would be the primary caretaker (being home during the day) and chasing after a pup 24-7 is not recommended for someone who has had multiple spine surgeries.  It would be different if I was retired but, damn, that won't happen for another few years.  

So here we are.  I'm very excited and trying to keep my emotions in check until we actually meet the breeder and the dogs.  In the meantime I'd like to educate myself and I'm asking for your help.  Other than the usual new-dog-in-the-house issues, are there things I should be aware of?  I believe Sassy, for example, was a breeder before Dave adopted her.  I'm interested in hearing any suggestions/stories anyone can share.

P.S.  Keep your fingers crossed that this works out!

 

 

 

 

 

[Hillscreek]

Think I would just fly with the new dog in house scenario which I'm sure you are well able to manage. SO happy for you!!

[sanford]

 

1 hour ago, hheldorfer said:

 The emotional balance of the household is completely out of whack without a Cairn around here.  Seriously - it's like all the energy was sucked out the front door, leaving a vacuum behind. 

You expressed it perfectly, Helene and I'm very excited for you!

Carrington, my first cairn, was 10 when I adopted him and was such a success that he's the reason I have Ruffy today and the reason I am a member of this forum.

The balance and energy will be restored to your home and to your lives, and your hearts will be full again!❤️

[bradl]

This is a smashing idea. I’m excited for you!

[remltr]

Hopefully I can offer some insight. I have only the experience with Sassy to share. Most of what I can offer is just speculation.

Sassy was 4 1/2 years old when I got her. I observed her playing with her last litter and she seemed like she was having fun.  I have not observed her ever playing with another dog since. She has only played bowed with me. When on walks she will say hi, sniff for about 15 seconds and she is done. If the other dog continues to sniff she will give the dog a growl and even possibly a snap. I don't think that she ever learned to play with other dogs. Little or no socialization while breeding. Other than that she is a sweetheart and loves to be petted by strangers if she can get their attention.

At the dog park she will follow me wherever I go. She avoids all the dogs like the plague. I think she believes she is human or above the stature of other dogs.

I don't know if her personality is a product of her years as a breeding dog or her current life.

I don't mean to sound negative and it hasn't been negative for me. It is just the way it is and it works for Sassy and me.

Trying to see if your possible selection is friendly with Ziggy may be difficult unless you can get them to meet on neutral ground.

I wish you lots of luck. 

[Min D]

I’m sure lots on this forum have the same little plaque that we do - “ a House is not a home without a cairn terrier” - I’m sure it will work...you have lots of cairn experience.....then your house will be a home again.

Wishing you lots of luck on choosing - maybe you don’t need to worry, some say that the right one will pick you- go with your feeling.

[hheldorfer]

8 hours ago, remltr said:

Hopefully I can offer some insight. I have only the experience with Sassy to share. Most of what I can offer is just speculation.

Sassy was 4 1/2 years old when I got her. I observed her playing with her last litter and she seemed like she was having fun.  I have not observed her ever playing with another dog since. She has only played bowed with me. When on walks she will say hi, sniff for about 15 seconds and she is done. If the other dog continues to sniff she will give the dog a growl and even possibly a snap. I don't think that she ever learned to play with other dogs. Little or no socialization while breeding. Other than that she is a sweetheart and loves to be petted by strangers if she can get their attention.

At the dog park she will follow me wherever I go. She avoids all the dogs like the plague. I think she believes she is human or above the stature of other dogs.

I don't know if her personality is a product of her years as a breeding dog or her current life.

I don't mean to sound negative and it hasn't been negative for me. It is just the way it is and it works for Sassy and me.

Trying to see if your possible selection is friendly with Ziggy may be difficult unless you can get them to meet on neutral ground.

I wish you lots of luck. 

I really appreciate your insight, Dave.  This is the type of information I need so I'll know what to watch for.  

Ziggy is a very laid-back dog and gets along well with the neighborhood dogs and with those we meet on walks, as long as they are not aggressive or threatening.  The breeder has insisted that we bring Ziggy along to make our selection so we can gauge how well he and the new dog will interact.  

I can't say for sure how well the dogs are socialized at the breeder's kennel, but the breeder was very forthcoming about how each of the females interact with other dogs.  

 

[Sam I Am]

Yes puppies are a lot of work. And if one can't physically deal with these balls of energy it's wise to adopt a mature Cairn. I hope it works out Helene, I don't have any experience with adopting a mature dog, but given the loving home you will provide complete  with Ziggy the greeter, I have no doubt it will work out. There might be a few issues the first little while (or not)but you and your DH are experienced terrier owners so you can deal with it. Keeping my fingers crossed you find the right girl.Lots of pics please☺️

[pkcrossley]

sounds like a beautiful situation for all involved. hope it works out, and highly confident it will. 

[kieiras mom]

Good for you, adopting a retire breeder. I am so happy . Puppies are a lot of energy and speaking as one with back issues, older and a little calmer  is a good thing. Lots of luck and fun!

[Islander]

So happy for you. Can’t imagine life without a Cairn. Gus’s breeder has told me she will always have a dog for me, whether I want a pup or retired breeder. 

It will be interesting to see who ends up top dog - Ziggy or the newbie.

looking forward to hearing all about it!

[sanford]

21 hours ago, remltr said:

Sassy was 4 1/2 years old when I got her...  I have not observed her ever playing with another dog since. She has only played bowed with me. When on walks she will say hi, sniff for about 15 seconds and she is done. If the other dog continues to sniff she will give the dog a growl and even possibly a snap. I don't think that she ever learned to play with other dogs. Little or no socialization while breeding. Other than that she is a sweetheart and loves to be petted by strangers if she can get their attention.

At the dog park she will follow me wherever I go. She avoids all the dogs like the plague. I think she believes she is human or above the stature of other dogs.

I don't know if her personality is a product of her years as a breeding dog or her current life.

(BRADL: You might want to move this to "Behavior and Health...)

remltr, I am responding to your comments because they touched a nerve with me and I'm wondering if you, (or anyone else) can help enlighten me. Your description of Sassy's behavior is a carbon copy of Ruffy's, which has always puzzled and disturbed me. Ruffy was adopted at almost the same age as Sassy. When I first got him, he would sniff around the perimeter of the dog run and occasionally play (a few) games of fetch, but as of a year ago he stopped doing that completely. With the exception of Lucy, a dog who he would vigorously and excitedly play with, he never expressed the slightest interest in others. (Sadly, Lucy moved away). Like you, I always attributed his lack of response to other dogs to the fact that perhaps he was taken from his litter too early before he learned to socialize. For the past year he does what Sassy does...following me like velcro around the dog park, avoiding all other dogs, or sitting the entire time on or under a bench, intently staring at me at length - perhaps trying to tell me... what??? Also like Sassy, Ruffy loves people, loves to be petted and often tries to make eye contact with folks on the street, so he can wag his tail and wiggle his butt and lie down for scritches. (Of course, this has made him very popular in the neighborhood).

Other than you, I never read anyone else describe the change in Ruffy's dog run behavior and it baffles me. I even reported it to the vet who agreed that "something is not right," but could not give a diagnosis. (Appetite, blood and urine tests are normal).

Up till now, I thought Ruffy's baffling behavior was unique to him alone... but now that I read about Sassy, I'm wondering (and hoping) that maybe this behavior falls within the broad range of "normal," which I would find reassuring, if true.

P.S. I'm just guessing here...Could Ruffy possibly be mourning the loss of Lucy, his one-and-only playmate? Or perhaps he's trying to tell me that the charms of the dog run can't compare to his number one favorite activity - chasing squirrels in the park, who are temptingly, just out of reach on the other side of the fence. Years ago, he scaled the fence in pursuit of a squirrel and ran out of sight until someone caught him for me!  Hmmm...Is he trying to tell me wants to quit the dog run for the park?

(Apologies for this long post, but I'm baffled)!

Edited November 16, 2017 by sanford

[hheldorfer]

Thanks to all of your for your comments and encouragement.  Today I made the mistake of Googling articles about adopting breeder dogs and many of the comments were negative:  The dogs aren't properly socialized, the dogs have lived in a small kennel and will be terrified by unfamiliar sights and sounds, the dogs are never housebroken, etc., etc..  

I understand there will  be a significant adjustment phase for the dog we adopt and DH and I are prepared to do whatever it takes, but I truly don't think a dog from this breeder - who has bred and shown many champions and obviously loves her dogs very much - should be quite so psychologically damaged as some of the online posts (from random dog-related sites) seem to indicate.

Note to self:  Stop Googling and stick to advice on Cairn Talk.  

[bradl]

Don’t despair. All breeders are not alike. The girls represent a good breeder’s hope for the future of the breed and they aren’t bred if they don’t have solid temperaments. They generally live as pets in the home with most (if not all) of the breeders I know. 

Sassy may be diffident with regards to other dogs (Stella is the same and she was never bred) but when I met her she looked to be a beautiful, solid dog. A princess 👸 in her own mind perhaps but one who could inspire a loyal following  

 

[hheldorfer]

Thanks for the encouragement Brad.  I'll concentrate on how much better life will be with a Cairn in the house again; everything else will fall into place.

[remltr]

Sassy was already housebroken when she arrived, so that was not an issue except for a couple of times which I consider normal. From time to time we all have to go before we can get to the toilet. 😱

The first time I took Sassy out for a potty walk, she peed, took one step and pooped. I thought I hit the jackpot. Never happened since.

I am sure that whichever girl dog picks you guys, everything will be just fine. Just don't expect her to be Buffy. They all have their own personalities.

[kjwarnold]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:23 PM, hheldorfer said:

It took less than a week after Buffy's passing before DH and I were checking adoption/rescue/shelter sites, looking for another Cairn.  The emotional balance of the household is completely out of whack without a Cairn around here.  Seriously - it's like all the energy was sucked out the front door, leaving a vacuum behind.  Ziggy has been great but, without Buffy around to motivate him, he's becoming complacent.  This place needs a Cairn reboot.

 

 

 

 

 

I know exactly how you feel.  After we lost Packy, it didn't take long to know we needed another Cairn.  And Kirby was obviously bewildered and mourning the loss.  Some people might have thought it was too soon but we knew what was right and we’re so glad we did it.  Phinney has been a joy and it makes us so happy to watch Kirby play with him.  Honestly, Kirby hasn’t played this much in years and Phinney clearly adores him.  

Our experience was a little different because Phin was a puppy when we got him, but our breeder worked with us to select the right puppy with a temperament that would work well with Kirby.  Sounds like your breeder has that in mind, too, since they want to include Ziggy in the decision process.

I’m so happy for you guys and can’t wait to hear about the new addition to your family!

[sanford]

 

14 hours ago, bradl said:

Don’t despair. All breeders are not alike.

While conducting my search to adopt, I was in touch with a breeder who had a bitch she was retiring. During our phone conversation and mutual interview it became clear that she was very devoted to her cairn and wanted an optimum home for her. The result was that although the breeder thought I would be an ideal parent, she reluctantly felt that it was not in the dog's best interest for me to adopt. The reason was that she was in a quiet, secluded rural area and I lived in the middle of a busy city, and her cairn had been trained to avoid cars and might not adjust to congestion, noises, etc. I liked and trusted this person and although I was disappointed, I was not offended. I respected her care and protective instincts for a dog she clearly loved.

So... just another example that all breeders can't be tarred with the same brush.

[hheldorfer]

14 hours ago, remltr said:

The first time I took Sassy out for a potty walk, she peed, took one step and pooped. I thought I hit the jackpot. Never happened since.

I am sure that whichever girl dog picks you guys, everything will be just fine. Just don't expect her to be Buffy. They all have their own personalities.

The concurrent pee/poop scenario is one we all dream of!

Fear not - We don't expect the new Cairn to be Buffy.  We'll be happy if she has half of Buffy's personality and attitude.  I'm already tired of being the only bitch in the  house.

[Lynn in TN]

Well I’m doing my happy dance for you, and us. It’s exciting we may have a new Cairn to swoon over. 😀 

Don’t worry about what the comments say on the internet either. When we were growing up we were taught if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all. Now days I think they are taught the opposite. It seems people tend to complain and whine a lot. The fact that this breeder wants you to bring Ziggy says a lot. It sounds very promising.  It will be awesome!  I’m so exited I can hardly stand it!!!! I can’t wait!!!!!

[Kathryn]

Just checking in -- and found this thread with such wonderful good news. I am so glad you all will have a new cairn. And, whatever worries you have (or had?),  I really don't think you will have to worry much:  you are a great home for a cairn, and any dog would thrive and grow in your care.  Every dog comes with quirks (remember I had T Bone...) but generally we learn to love them, and they learn to be the best dogs they can be with that love. 

I eagerly await the stories about who you pick, how the girl adjusts, and just how much you grow to love her. Good news...

 

[hheldorfer]

Our appointment with the breeder is set for next Sunday at 1:00.  I'm more nervous about this than I've ever been at a job interview.  Keep fingers and paws crossed that it goes well.

[Min D]

They’re crossed. I’m sure you’re very excited......great for all involved.

[Hillscreek]

Hey hheldorfer. Try not to over study the scenario. Forget the googling etc. Just take Ziggy with you and go with your gut. Meet on neutral ground if you can. If things feel promising then bring the lady home and let the two of them take their own time to relate. You'll will do right thing whatever it is. You know cairn terriers  and you know how they pick up our feelings so quickly and intensely. The less uptight you are the better for them.

Easy for me to say!! Harder for you to do. Wishing you all the best. Be thinking of you - all of you.

P.S. where's a pic of this little lady??

[hheldorfer]

57 minutes ago, Hillscreek said:

Hey hheldorfer. Try not to over study the scenario. Forget the googling etc. Just take Ziggy with you and go with your gut. Meet on neutral ground if you can. If things feel promising then bring the lady home and let the two of them take their own time to relate. You'll will do right thing whatever it is. You know cairn terriers  and you know how they pick up our feelings so quickly and intensely. The less uptight you are the better for them.

Easy for me to say!! Harder for you to do. Wishing you all the best. Be thinking of you - all of you.

P.S. where's a pic of this little lady??

We don't  have any pics.  The breeder has three breeding girls and we will be choosing one of them.  The meeting is at the breeder's house so it won't be "neutral ground" but Ziggy has always been good about meeting new dogs.  IF the breeder decides we're good enough parents, she will then arrange to have the chosen dog spayed, teeth cleaned, etc. and we'll have to wait until a later date to pick her up.