Cairn physical traits

[Czechchic888]

When does a Cairns ears begin to stand up... what age?

Edited June 6, 2017 by Czechchic888
I goofed

[Idaho Cairns]

Varies by the dog--usually no more than 3 to 8 months or so.

[LindaMC]

We got our Maisie when she was 4 months old and her ears were still down.  I believe it was another month of so before they began to go up.  Not to worry, they'll be up before you know it.

[Czechchic888]

On 6/6/2017 at 11:21 AM, Czechchic888 said:

When does a Cairns ears begin to stand up... what age?

thank you for the imput. it's my first Cairn and I'm worried about what I should look for in the breed to be sure.

[Czechchic888]

we are going tomorrow to see the little cairn. she is almost 4 months old and will be ready soon to leave.  Any imput on what I should look for..?

[pkcrossley]

look for lots of opportunities to have fun with your dog! you say this is your first cairn, so i do recommend mining this site for all the advice you can get. cairn puppies are certifiably the cutest in the world, but there are also a huge (and very worthwhile) challenge. a grown-up cairn is a wonder to behold. we all made it. 

[Idaho Cairns]

Look to see if she is "people friendly", i.e., has she been handled a bunch by the breeder.  It is good when a Cairn pup has been socialized with humans as wee little ones.  Other than that, not much more i can tell you except not to worry--I rarely, if ever see a Cairn with droopy ears--normally they come up just like those fat little tails but I think we all worry about the ears and probably too much.  With a Cairn, it is the personality that counts in my book and the physical traits are a distant second, or third actually.

[Czechchic888]

We went to see the pup today.  It is 7 weeks old. Breeder says she will be ready to go in a week or so. Breeder says this  girl puppy is active but she was not very active with us. She seemed very scared.  Actually at seven weeks, she seems so unready to leave her mom. The breeder lives in a nice home. We did not see the mother dog. There is a building behind the house. All seems clean and manicured.  There were no dogs about. They had no dogs about of their own. They say that they have been very busy with other matters and have not interacted with this litter much. Breeder says they have petted them a little...The breeder is very nice but I feel funny.., The puppy is not interacting much and I feel that it's so young. I know 8 weeks is legal but I just don't feel right. This puppy is so young.

I am inserting the photo I took of the puppy. I asked  when the puppies ears would start to stand up. The breeder said sometimes the ears don't stand up.

On the internet, they have one or 2 other breeds for sale. .. they have dog statuettes all over the living room but no dog photos of their  dogs or photos of their past litters etc. 

I am just not sure. I am giving you feedback on what transpired. I'm not trying to be negative...I put a hold payment down that I would loose if I change my mind. I do not mind loosing that money but I think I need to let they know soon if I'm not getting this wee dog....

please give me feedback? 

[Sam I Am]

I would listen to that "funny" feeling you have. I would definitely ask to see the mother and the other litter mates. Has the pup had a bile acid test? Have the pups seen a vet for vaccinations, checkup etc? Ask who their vet is. Where are the other pups and how do they look? Are the parents registers?  These are all totally normal questions and if there is hesitation or no answer to your questions  I would walk away. 

There should be lots of questions also from the breeder to you to make sure you are a responsible new owner of one of her pups. A contract is always in place with responsible breeders plus most breeders do not let that pups go at 8 weeks. At least that's with my experience. And what responsible owner does not have time to interact with the pups....especially as it sounds there are a few other breeds on the property.

If it feels wrong...it is wrong. Trust your gut.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Terrier lover

[Idaho Cairns]

You ABSOLUTELY need to see the pup with it's mother and litter mates--absolutely and the breeder, if responsible, will give you that opportunity.  Unless there is something in the contract you signed stipulating the dog should leave the litter at 8 weeks (far to early--a month early in my opinion) then ask for that additional month to make a decision.
I'm no breeder, have zero experience with litters of Cairns but everything I have read and seen (including my last purchase) indicates that a Cairn pup should be socialized to humans, unafraid, bold, eager for human touch and involvement.
I was provided with a video of my Bonnie with her littermates and her breeder--I could see each pup in the litter interacting with the other puppies and saw how all the pups crowded around the breeder--they were then 8 weeks and I had to wait another four weeks before the breeder would release here--with all her puppy shots and a vet exam included. 
I have attached that video so you can see what I mean in terms of interaction with humans  Bonnie is "little Tia in the video.  Brad, this breeder is no longer selling pups--apparently so bear with the advertising aspect.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Idaho Cairns

[Czechchic888]

There was no contract just the holding fee.  No questions about my home environment. Nada! She breeds more than one dog.. but some things were different.  She invited us to her home to see the pup. But the was the building in the back.  She had just got home and wanted to wash the puppy. So we waited till she returned.  I was very struck by the lack of their own beloved dogs. I did not see any. Just the building in the back. As I said .. it was a beautiful home and we did not see the momma dog.  I think this pup was the last of the litter... but I'm not sure.  The pup was sorta non responsive. I put a photo of the pup in here . ... do you see anything concerning in that photo.... ?? 

I remark about the home cause, most puppy mill breeders don't want to meet at their home... 

i appreciate your feedback... 

 

 

 

[Idaho Cairns]

Let me add to the above (without editing as I had a dickens of a time getting that video right!
I hesitate to condemn the breeder you are dealing with based on the info you have reported.  Everything might well be fair and square but I would ask to see the pup and the litter together and to ask for that additional time--eight weeks seems way too soon.
Cairns are a pretty cagey breed of dogs and overcome change well and, in my opinion, adjust well to different environments so chances are the pup you are considering, with a bit more maturity, would probably be fine.
You just need more information and the breeder should both understand and provide that information to you.
Sometimes I get too negative to quickly so I'm backing away from the more blunt comments I made above.
Getting a Cairn is an absolute joy and I want you to experience that.

[Czechchic888]

... I am coming from this, .....uncertainty, ....one thinks of a million things you shoulda asked or done but didn't... I want a Cairn so much... I'm gonna have a Cairn.!!! I think this Cairn needs her mom... at least another month... and yet I know that someone else is buying her at that age of 8 weeks if I don't ... 

 

 

[Czechchic888]

Thanks for your input.

[Idaho Cairns]

Another observation--if that pup you were shown had just been bathed it might cause  it to be a bit off kilter and might explain the stand offish attitude you witnessed.  Just a thought.

[bradl]

Speaking for myself ??? red flags galore. I would not personally get a Cairn from the situation you describe. 

[sanford]

I'm sorry to have to say that I agree with the cautious comments above. It's one thing to get a pup that you feel good about and seems fine, but turns out to have problems. This is unfortunate, but can happen to anyone. But in a situation such as yours, where you have doubts or misgivings from the outset, you will end up holding yourself responsible for making a poor decision. 

The other side of the equation is that these cairns are resilient and the love and support you devote to a pup in its crucial first months can often, (but not always) create as fine a dog as any. 

P.S. I also agree with Idaho as to leaving the pup with its mom for a longer time. Everything I've read recently has advised that 8 weeks with the mom is no longer considered adequate as it once was. Pups continue to acquire important traits and behaviors from their mom and litter-mates if kept with them up to 12 weeks. I'm tempted to go out on a limb and say that maybe that's all this little pup needs.

Whatever your choice, the good folks here will be available for help and advice, so keep us posted!

Edited June 9, 2017 by sanford

[bradl]

You asked about what to look for in a Cairn puppy. My very first thought when I read that was confidence and curiosity.

Good for you for recognizing that a 12-16 week old puppy is better ready to cope with the world. Puppies go through  fear periods (usually two, and brief) where they can be a bit skittish about certain things but a well-socialized puppy is nearly fearless and social at any age.  A tentative or under-socialized puppy can lead to an adult dog with lots of unnecessary issues, including potentially fear-aggression. (Timid dogs lack the full toolset of skills to manage stress and sometimes veer between "run away" and "attack out of fear.")

The inability to see a dog this age with its littermates, with its mother, with other household dogs and so on is a red flag for me … more than that, an outright dealbreaker.  

To be fair, maybe the pup was a singleton and there were no littermates. (Singletons are a special case and they can be fantastic dogs, but even without littermates well-bred well-socialized ones will ooze confidence and curiosity.) But all that would have come out in a visit. So, red flag.

If the pup had littermates and they are already gone at 7 weeks? Red flag, red flag, red flag (one for every imaginary pup).

Multiple-breed households of good breeders exist but they they tend to be fairly rare in my experience and much more common in casual breeders who care little for the breed as a breed.  Red flag.

Lack of being grilled on your experience with dogs, with terriers, your home environment, your lifestyle, your expectations of the dog, what you will do in various situations, how you will care for the dog when its older, what you will do if/when your life situation changes … red flag.

Can't visit the kennel itself? Red flag.

I so totally get the desire for a Cairn and I have succumbed to it many times  But it's also totally worth it to track down a breeder with whom you feel great confidence and who will be your breed mentor for life.  Patience and persistence are two attributes that make owning a terrier possible, and they can be applied before the fact in the finding of one. A breeder once told me, to get a good terrier, be a terrier. 

Wishing you success in your search.

[pkcrossley]

what a thrill to see baby bonnie's video!

it sounds like you need another visit to the breeder, if possible --you could have caught her on a bad day. a more important point: i agree with everybody above who say 8 weeks is too young to leave the mother. i would probably say that the breeder's facility would have to be pretty bad to make it better for the puppy to leave at 8 weeks than to stay till 12. the extra time with the mother and the litter (if possible) will make things much easier for puppy and owner. 

[Czechchic888]

Thanks.. this helps a lot.

[Hillscreek]

Agree with every word Brad says. 

I know how it is when you really really really want a cairn terrier NOW. Many of us have felt that way. BUT there is more than one cairn terrier breeder in the world so take your time. It took me a while till I found the breeder for my pup.  I wrote down a list of questions to ask and phoned and emailed and talked with a number of breeders before deciding who to visit. Angus was 12 weeks old when I met him. He was playing with his siblings in a large fenced in grassy area. They were four boys a bunch of lively little fellas. His mom and dad and grandma all lived in the house with the family. His breeder and I talked and talked for ages asking each other questions while I visited with the adult dogs and then again when we watched and talked about the pups. She was not in a hurry to sell the pups. She wanted the right home for them.

After you talk with a few people with your list of question to remind you by your side you soon get a feel for those out for the money and those who love the breed and understand it.

 

[Lynn in TN]

This is a video of my Kelly at about six weeks. Even though she said she wouldn't let them leave until at least 10 weeks, but preferred 12, She made an exception for me. I took her home at 9 weeks old. I was at her house 3 times for almost 2 hours each time. My children were there once, in this video they were with me. I saw and played with all of her dogs and so did my children. Neither of the puppies were afraid of us, but one of them was a little less playful this particular day. Not one of the dogs that she had was afraid. They all seemed to enjoy our company. They also seemed to love the breeder. She asked me questions constantly the first 2 times I was there. As a matter of fact she asked me as many questions as I asked her.

She wanted my children to come so she could see how they interacted with the pups and adult dogs. The one with the constantly wagging tail is Kelly.

 

[Czechchic888]

Thank you forsharing that with me.  The video helped. I see how active they can be. And it's important to see them with the mama...

[Kathryn]

Thanks to Idaho and Lynn for the puppy videos...for a brief moment, I thought about how much fun it would be to have a puppy again.  But then I came back to my senses...

I know the feeling of desperately wanting a cairn, Czechchic, but with others here I urge some caution -- actually, I urge a lot of caution. I have never gotten a cairn from a breeder or a cairn rescue group that didn't have lots of questions about my home, my family, my experience with cairns, and a detailed contract on the dog which included clauses about initial puppy visits to the vet, neutering, etc.  And I never got a dog younger than 14 weeks, though I did get to visit one during its puppyhood.  In the cases where I bought a dog from a breeder (I also had a rescue cairn), each gave me a three-ring binder with lots of info on the pup, including pedigree, records of first shots and vet visits, etc.  The breeders were folks who owned cairns, bred them selectively, and showed, showed, showed -- whether in conformation, obedience, or agility -- and often all three.  Their houses had all the things that said they loved dogs -- photos and ribbons everywhere, little cairn figurines -- but I also met the puppy and parents and siblings in their houses.  They often had kennels around to separate the dogs in their homes, but it was clear the dogs shared their homes. All were active in local cairn clubs, and I could learn about them from other cairn owners I know in the area. 

The house you visited sounds nothing like the cairn breeder homes I visited -- and that to me is a worry.  If the dogs are in a separate building, it sounds like a puppy mill. Maybe to be kind, a "backyard breeder." But either way, that is someone in the business for the money rather than the love of dogs.  And I would worry that the dogs do not get their due in that kind of environment.

A cairn lasts a long time -- the last one I lost lived well over 16 years. My current cairn Oban is just settling in, I think, at age 4 -- he had a very long puppyhood.  It is hard to wait -- even harder to see a cute puppy and not take it home.  It may be hard to walk away, but I think you should walk away.  A well-bred cairn is worth the wait.

 

 

[Dempsy's Mom]

Great advice - really helpful to see the videos - hoping the next visit will be more transparent.  Ask your questions with a smile and just be open with your concerns.  Let her know that you want the best for the little cairn and your family.  I would think seeing the litter and mom would be routine, but I have never had a puppy.  Sorry that you even have such concerns - this should be an exciting time full of anticipation for your little one to  come home.  Good luck!