Jump to content
CairnTalk

Cairn becoming aggressive


Dan1234

Recommended Posts

We love Cairns and have an almost 3 year old boy Cairn, Crumble, and a younger boy Boggle almost 10 months old. Neither are neutered and I don't want to do this except as a last resort. 

Crumble has started to become a bit aggressive, although has never actually bitten anyone. He growls and shows very aggressive characteristics particularly when he is disciplined. He also does this if we try and move him or bother him when he is tired or just doesn't want to move. He gets aggressive to my wife if she puts him in his cage. He started off doing this to my wife before Boggle came along, but has got much worse over the last year and challenges me too now. When disciplined  (which is rare and usually for peeing in the house, and is only a loud telling off - nothing physical) he becomes very aggressive and if pushed I am sure would bite. We now back off when he does this - which I worry encourages him to use aggression more to get his way. How should we react to this, if we tell him off more he becomes more aggressive. 

He is generally a sweet, loving, tactile but a bit anxious dog, he adores me, he loves my wife but less so and gets very anxious and howls when I leave the house and go to work. I play ball with them and walk them hard when I'm home but four days a week I have a five hour return commute to work so leave and get back whilst still dark so limited what I can do (they still get a ball game, but more limited). My wife does not exercise the boys enough and is now pregnant with twins so can't do much. 

Boggle bothers Crumble the whole time and is very good natured and playful. Crumble plays back almost all the time but can snap at Boggle if he is tired. Crumble does sometimes initiate the play too. 

We're concerned that this aggressive streak in an otherwise lovely dog is getting worse, especially with kids on the way. Does anyone have any advice? Any help would be really appreciated.

Many thanks

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have one question. Why are you against neutering?  I suspect part of your issues with Crumble (love that name) is testosterone causing him to be overly aggressive . This is a great forum and you will get lots of good advice on how to handle aggressive behaviour. Something you no doubt will want to nip in the bud with twins on the way.

  • Like 5

Until one has loved an animal, a part of  one's soul remains unawakened.  - Anatole France

Adventures with Sam &Rosie

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you very much. Ideally we would like to breed from him. He is Kennel Club registered and we'd like to find a registered breeder who would be interested in using him and we'd like one of his pups. 

I'm aware of the benefits of neutering but do also struggle with it a bit - maybe it's because I'm a guy too! If this becomes a big problem or a risk to the twins, we'd certainly consider neutering but I'd like to try every other approach first. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

many points for honesty, dan! the resistance of guys to neutering their dogs is very well known --NYC used to run a funny PSA about a guy out in a field with his pittie, with the tag line, "he'll still be a guy." 

the problems you describe with crumble (which appear to be problems of manners at this point) are classic, and you can find hundreds (thousands?) of threads discussing these exact behaviors. they are normal for a cairn his age who is experimenting with putting himself about a bit, and they are probably exacerbated by the presence of a young potential rival, and they are certainly greatly exacerbated by being unneutered. it is also possible that he is being triggered by success at intimidating somebody and wants to push his advantage. 

these dogs are extremely formidable both in their intelligence and their destructive abilities, so you have to be quietly and firmly formidable too. "if pushed i'm sure he would bite." crumble is trying to train all of you instead of the other way around, which is typically and lovably cairn. he is winning and he knows it. you have to intervene with a pretty comprehensive program of manners. i mean he has to respect rules for everything regarding eating, going in and out of doors, welcoming visitors, sharing toys, you name it. no growling, no teeth-baring, no menacing of any kind, guarding of food or toys. don't make the mistake of thinking you will only pay attention to the "big" things. cairns are very good at pattern recognition and they will see the world as either consistent and reasonable or chaotic and unreasonable (and unfair), depending on your approach.

check out the threads, there are unlimited good ideas, including how to handle a dog who threatens to bite and will feel he has to follow through if challenged (i had a bitey cairn myself and i understand the problem --there are solutions that will prevent you being bitten, in fact you MUST protect yourself from being bitten, because once bitten you will flinch and the problems of dealing with crumble will multiply. of course, i suspect from your note that he is already intimidating people and perhaps your puppy, so at this point it might be the same as if he had bitten somebody, in terms of dealing with his confidence at intimidating others). you have to decide which will work with crumble. the strategies also have to be something you and your household can stick to, since consistency is absolutely critical. nobody can be the weak link, or crumble will divide and conquer you all. cairns fight for command of the world, but those who actually do get in charge (because of their owner's unwillingness to match them), are nervous, worried, suspicious, and make a misery of life for themselves and their people. if you successfully get crumble through this normal cairn-like period of development (and most do, especially the many hundreds here), you will be on your way to a glorious life with a mature and trusting cairn. 

as for neutering, i'm opinionated on the do it side. although i am intensely loyal to cairns and very impressed with what they go through to fit into modern life, i'm not generally big on the idea of pure-bred dogs, either from the scientific or the social or the cultural perspectives. the last thing needed in this world is more puppies (well, actually the last thing needed is more kittens, but more puppies is next). we want cairns to keep going, and that means a small number of excellent breeders. once all the dogs have homes, we can think about making some more. for most people out their living with and loving their cairns, neutering smooths the path to a very healthy and very happy dog. and he'll still be a guy. 

Edited by pkcrossley
  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't express an opinion re neutering... I have no experience with this. In many other ways, your description of negative behavior sounds similar to  Ruffy and Carrington before him. Their sweet gentle natures would change for the worst if I attempted to scold/speak harshly or force them to do what they didn't want: move them off a bed, chair, etc. I don't know if this is true of cairn temperament in general - I can only speak for mine. Scolding seemed to get them to dig in further. My instincts told me that if I pushed it further, their aggression would escalate. Instead, to my surprise I discovered that speaking to them in an exaggerated, disappointed tone of voice, telling them how disappointed I was in their behavior always seemed to get them to look quite crushed, aware that they had let me down. (True to what's been mentioned here many times... our cairns are acutely sensitive). The  result was that I could usually get them to do what I wanted, more willingly, - or at least with a lot less growling/complaining.

Edited by sanford
  • Like 7

FEAR THE CAIRN!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well that gives me an idea. get sanford to come over and have a talk with crumble! seriously, he is demonstrating the great range of possible approaches. his worked wth carrington and ruffy, and it might work with crumble. be willing to try and fail with all kinds of strategies, till you find out what works with crumble and with your household. something will work. he is normal --we have heard all that before and many or most of us have been through it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, pkcrossley said:

 get sanford to come over and have a talk with crumble! 

Ha-ha! I'm willing to make house calls, but only within a half-mile radius!:D

  • Like 4

FEAR THE CAIRN!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent post pk. I agree with every word. Yep Crumble is a normal cairn.

Went through all this with Angus and found a consistent approach worked best. A cairn will never be a slave but he will be a fabulous partner when he understands you mean what you say. Agree with Sanford that shouting and being angry with a cairn only makes them shout right back and push boundaries more. Search the forum and you will find all sorts of ways to work with Crumble. There will be a way for you but it will take time and patience and persistence. Cairns don't want to give up power! 

Re breeding:  from our experience breeding - briefly in jrts and for some years with retrievers - is that once a dog has bred a bitch his nature changes. He  will likely never be reliable in the home as the need to mark territory is paramount. His prime aim in life is to find a female. If he tended to boss his humans before then he may well be much more "macho" after. In addition a male dog can smell a female in estrus at least two miles away and he will be amazingly successful in getting free to find her. Two unneutered males together may spend time seeing who is top dog which can cause trouble.

Why do you want to bring a litter of puppies into the world just to have one to keep? Millions of dogs are euthanized every year  (including cairns and other terriers). Frequently I have heard people want to get "your dog and mine together for puppies" Sometimes it is to keep a pup, sometimes to make money - they hope. The cost of caring for a pregnant bitch and the time and  expense of raising the pups is frequently more than what is gained from the sale of the pup - even if they are all able to be sold. I won't go into the long studies of pedigrees and health needed before deciding who to breed to whom.

With babies on the way I think I would consider getting the boys neutered and work on their general behavior. Caring for babies with an unruly cairn (or two) might be a bit of a challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register after. Your post will display after you confirm registration. If you already have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

CairnTalk.net

  • A meeting place and
    online scrapbook for
    Cairn Terrier fanciers.

ctn-no-text-200.png

Disclaimers

  • All posts are the opinion and
    responsibility of the poster.
  • Post content © the author.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Site Guidelines | We put cookies on your device to help this website work better for you. You can adjust your cookie settings; otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.