New here, Adopted Cairn Mix

[sunvalleylaw]

Hi!  My name is Steve.  I and my family just adopted what we are told is a Cairn mix from the Animal Shelter of the Wood River Valley (Sun Valley Idaho area).  Here name was Lucy, now is Macy, with nicknames already of "Chewie" for Chewbacca, Yub Nub, for her ewok like appearance, and etc.  We will train with the name Macy.  

 

We have always been larger dog people, and currently also have a Vizsla, Monty.  So far, she has fit right in, is not yappy or overly mouthy (normal puppy mouth notwithstanding), and the dogs seem to get along well.  We were interested in a smaller dog for more cuddling, as the kids were interested in a cat and I tend to be allergic to cats.  We stopped at the shelter, and fell in love with this little face and personality.  

 

Any training tips appreciated for excessive yappiness (not a problem at all so far), excessive mouthiness (not a problem, but we are being careful about treat sharing as there has been a little territorial-ness over the new toys, and healing and coming to call.  We have trained in the past by fairly traditional lead, and treat methods.  Clickers have not been our thing, but willing to try.  Monty is very food motivated.  

Any thoughts on this mix, and how to best welcome her into her new home would be appreciated!

Here are a couple pics!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by sunvalleylaw

[sunvalleylaw]

Also, she slept very well in a crate in our room, settling down with only two little whines after I got into bed.  Slept the whole night.  Seems to be responding to commands and boundaries pretty well that we are establishing.  Keeping her off the furniture for now unless invited up, keeping her close on the lead and not all over the place, discouraging jumping up, but encouraging cuddles.  She seems eager to learn and please and very smart.  She likes to walk right next to our Vizsla, and they enjoy some wrestling and playing.  She is much calmer than her first visit home before adoption already.  And so cute!

[Sam I Am]

Welcome to this site. Lots of great information and wonderful people to share their stories.  What a sweetie! I can definitely see the Cairn in that face. Have you had the joy of hearing the Cairn scream of death yet? This usually happens when they encounter a rabbit, a squirrel .....lol

[sunvalleylaw]

HaHa!  No, not yet.  But my daughter said she let out a rebel yell or scream of excitement when I entered the house yesterday.  We had company and a lot of people around so I didn't hear.  But I am sure at some point I will.  She is not too vocal yet.  A few wrestling noises with Monty, and a whimper or too if in her crate, and appropriate barking if someone enters the house so far.  

[sunvalleylaw]

One more shot.  The one from the shelter after adoption.  

 

 

 

 

[Kathryn]

Really cute pup!

[Hillscreek]

Hi, Love that cute little face. Sure looks like there's cairn in there. Great to welcome another buddy. Really appreciate the pics. I used to have big dogs too and I love my Angus because he IS a big dog - just in a smaller body.

 

[sanford]

Welcome to this wonderful site! Looking forward to hearing about Macy's adventures.

How could you not fall in love with that adorable face! I love the mischievous look in her bright Cairn eyes. Re advice... You seem to be doing all the right things re Macy, and you are experienced dog owners as well... Also, it's very often the case that the new pup picks up the (good) habits of the resident dog, so training Macy could turn out to be easier than you anticipate. Then again - she IS a terrier, so...? Be sure to ask specific behavioral questions if and when they should arise and you'll get loads of help from the folks here.

P.S. As to advice, I just remembered the primary thing I was told when I adopted my first cairn: "Never, ever let him off the leash!" Cairns were bred to have a strong prey/pursuit drive; they never give up and will bolt to chase a rabbit or other prey into the next county, heedless of danger or calls to "stay/stop!" They've been know to get lost, (or worse) this way. It worried me to hear this - I feared it would inhibit my enjoyment of playing and interacting with my dog, but the consequences of letting Ruffy off-leash was not worth the risk, so I never have, and to my surprise, I easily adjusted to this reality... The fun, love and pleasure I get from my terrier compensates ten-fold for having to keep him leashed. (And luckily for us, the local off-leash dog park down the street is fenced in... So, problem solved)!

Was your shelter able to give you any guesses as to what breed Macy might be mixed with? From what you described about her so far, it sounds like she's inherited some very positive behavioral characteristics! 

[hheldorfer]

Welcome to the Cairn family!  Macy looks like a sweetheart!  It sounds as if you have plenty of dog experience and are handling things well.  I would like to echo Sanford's advice above regarding allowing Macy off-leash.  Several of our members allow this - in rural areas, nowhere close to roads and other hazards - and have had few problems, but Cairns are notorious for becoming totally deaf to commands when prey is involved.  

As for Macy being relatively non-vocal at this point, um . . . that may change once she feels more comfortable in her surroundings.  The Cairn Death Screech can leave your ears ringing for hours if you happen to be in close quarters when it happens.

Browse around the site when you have time.  There are plenty of topics dealing with new pups, training, odd behavior, etc. that will be helpful to you in the future.  

We look forward to more stories and pics!

 

[Hillscreek]

40 minutes ago, hheldorfer said:

 off-leash.  Several of our members allow this - in rural areas, nowhere close to roads and other hazards - and have had few problems, but Cairns are notorious for becoming totally deaf to commands when prey is involved.  

Agree with above. I live where I can let Angus run on game lands. No vehicles beyond the parking area. And there only a couple maybe. He will be five in Sept. and it  took at least three plus years till I felt confident to let him run. First he was on a regular 6 ft leash then 20 ft and on up to 50 ft as I taught the recall. Then I let him trail the long leash for a bit then shorter etc til one day I let him go free.  He has become a wonderful companion on our walks with just the one caveat - like most cairns - when the prey drive kicks in everything else is ignored. He is totally focused. I cannot call him off like I could call my retrievers off.

However he only hunts what he can see move, the rustle of a field mouse or vole in the grass for example. If it stops or gets away like a rabbit he gives up and returns to normal. He may be out of sight but he is never far from me. He doesn't follow a trail very far like my retrievers used to. He does use his nose but he's very sight oriented. The smallest movement triggers the pounce and the dig.

 

[Autumn & Lola]

Welcome to you and to Macy!  She is adorable. My Lola is a 'white Cairn' (a Westie :D), but they let me hang out here anyway.

Having had a Cairn, I can also echo the 'no off-leash' thing, unless she is in a totally, utterly and completely secure environment. (Although, my Molly once dug under a 6ft wood and chicken wire fence and escaped for a short while. She had been working on the hole, little by little, probably for days. They are clever like that!)

Love the pics!  Can't wait to hear tales of your adventures together.

[Malcolm's Dad]

Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to your adventures.

[Dempsy's Mom]

She is so cute - love Macy.  Looks and sounds like she is fitting right in - it's gonna be a good life.    Welcome to the forum!!

[pkcrossley]

i like her! so far she sounds pretty cooperative for a cairn. i guess i would be prepared for the fact that once she starts feeling comfortable and confident, you MIGHT see some cairny-ness coming out (willfulness, some possessiveness of toys or you, a little tendency to push buttons) --if so, just stand your ground and wait it out. but maybe you will just get the cairn brilliance, optimism, friendliness and energy without any complications --that would be my ideal. 

oh, and i have to agree --no off-leash. she will not be able to resist a chance to chase a squirrel, rabbit, chipmunk, so matter where it will lead. they get a fever for prey that cuts off all considerations of safety.  

[sanford]

2 hours ago, pkcrossley said:

... be prepared for the fact that once she starts feeling comfortable and confident, you MIGHT see some cairny-ness coming out...

You can bet on it!?Enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts!??

[sunvalleylaw]

Yes, so far so good.  We have long been dog owners and always trained them.  We do allow some couch sitting and cuddling, but on our terms.  And outside time has been governed by conditions (on lead in town, off lead in the woods when appropriate). The lead thing and coming when called may be one of the most challenging things.  We have had two vizslas.  Our current one when he was young had a strong prey instinct and did not come when called when birds were around.  We worked with him using long leads, treats and rewards, etc. and it got  better.  and he got a little older.  But he is a bird dog.  He likes to lead us out on our hikes, and stays close and checks in.  So NO off lead with Macy for a long time, if ever.  

 

We live in Hailey, Idaho, and have Bureau of Land Management land we walk nearly every day.  Grass and sage, lupine, Arrow Leaf Balsam root, etc.   A little further north there is more pine forest. Where we walk, there are no vehicles at all, and no access for any, once on trail.   But until she has aged up some and really bonded, and is doing really well with the come when called command, I will not even try it. Even when and if I do try it, I will wait until I have a lot of time.  There are voles, bunnies, and birds in the area, along with some deer and sometimes some elk.  Sometimes a moose and her young come around, but we don't let the dogs out or go out when that happens.   

 

 

 

She has continued to settle in well.  Have heard a few barks, usually when our vizsla announces that he sees a visitor or someone outside.  No screams today so far.  Loves to play with toys and a couple old soccer balls that have been donated to the dog bin.  Loves to cuddle.  Has been re-directed to a nice soft dog bed instead of furniture pretty reasonably so far.  

 

I spent a chunk of the day plugging gaps in the ranch netting on our fence.  Gaps where the gates open, etc., that she already began to find.  So far, my handiwork has been good.  But we are not leaving her out in the yard alone.  

 

She definitely likes to stay nearby us.  And showers us with love constantly.  What a cutie!!

 

Oh, one thing.  I usually have used a chain on the collar, via a traditional lead, to train heeling.  Seems like everyone I see with these terriers use the retractable leashes and harnesses.  Any reason I can't train with a traditional lead and chain?  Very light touch and communication via short little pulls on the lead then release, for communication only.    It was how I was trained to train and seems to work to develop a dog that stays closer when wanted.  But would welcome your thoughts.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by sunvalleylaw

[bradl]

I train with a typical chain (five to CD and one to CDX); it is unlikely to be an issue. Mixes are by definition a bit of an unknown but Cairns in general are inherently sturdy. While some are soft many can be somewhat hard and getting their attention can be a challenge sometimes  

They are very fun loving and seem to do better with short sessions and not too much repetition. 

I do use a retractable sometimes for things like potty trips and will add a harness at the beach or when letting them race around. Sturdy or not I hate to see them hit the end of a long line at warp speed while in a collar.

[Autumn & Lola]

Regarding leads/collars/harnesses: Cairns are as strong (and often as stubborn) as bulls. Brad once posted a pic of a Cairn pulling a man on a cart. Many on here have upgraded their harnesses/leads to heavy-duty types you'd think you'd only need for a much bigger dog. At 14.5lbs., Molly broke the very strong clasp on her harness by pulling.   She nearly pulled me over several times (and I am not small). She was also a Houdini at slipping her collar. Both Molly and Lola would nearly rather break their own necks on their collars rather than give up the chase of some small, furry creature. Then there was Molly's pogo-type bouncing to look over a 6ft fence and to nearly pull a sizzling saute pan down on herself. So, fun times ahead!   It's to your advantage that you have so much experience training dogs. I was a complete novice!   They are so much fun, though. Sweet, funny, always up for an adventure, they pack a huge amount of personality in a small package.

[sanford]

13 hours ago, sunvalleylaw said:

.. Seems like everyone I see with these terriers use the retractable leashes and harnesses.  Any reason I can't train with a traditional lead and chain? 

You are dog-experienced, so I think you should stick to the traditional lead and chain that you are used to.

Not everyone uses retractable leashes. They are somewhat controversial. I won't go into the pros and cons, (covered elsewhere on this site in the past) except to say that I use one for Ruffy. The thumb-controlled brake is very effective at protecting my arm from being pulled from its socket when he suddenly lunges after a squirrel, which I like him to be able to do. The brake also allows me to slow him down instead of yanking him to a dead halt.

i originally bought one based on his weight, (18-20 lbs.). The string never seemed very sturdy to me and after a while I noticed it started to fray so I upgraded to a new retractable leash for 45 lb. dogs instead! This has a tape instead of a string, which is not only stronger, but much more visible as well.

I use it only on our walks in the parks so he has more leeway to run/wander and get more exercise. When we go for walks on the city streets I use a regular lead.

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by sanford

[hheldorfer]

I used retractable leashes with other dogs in the past - dogs with good recall - but would never try one on Buffy.  A normal leash gives me much better control.  

[Hillscreek]

When I began to train my dogs for obedience trials long ago I used the chain collar and a six foot latigo leather leash in a similar manner to what you describe. No treats just verbal praise, never heard of clicker or harness except one I used with my lab to pull a sled when my kids were small. Over the years I have tried various different ways of training but found the collar and leash the way to go for me. Just use a light cotton leash nowadays. Not a fan of the retractable leash. I found harness encouraged pulling. He wears an orange harness out walking because this is hunting country. Did start to use treats with verbal praise when first training something new. Fumbled hopelessly with the clicker.

Training Angus took a LONG time and a LOT of patience. He learned everything immediately and then it was all fun and games for him "catch me if you can" "I'll come when I'm ready" 'It's mine, mine, mine". He's certainly been the most amusing and fun loving dog I've ever owned. Many times he's made me laugh even when I was exasperated.

I think much depends on your circumstances and where you live. Also your own experience and what you want from your relationship with your dog. It seems to me there's no one way. People and dogs and where they live are all different. Nowadays I don't mind if Angus is not exactly to heel. Just walk on a loose leash please. I am old and stiff and I think even a small dog like Angus might pull me over if I wasn't paying attention. Somehow as he has matured he has seemed to recognize this and I often feel he is watching out for me as much as I am for him. Cairns are very attuned to their uprights' needs and mood.

Re cuddling. Generally a cairn decides if he wants to be cuddled at all, or when he wants to be cuddled, and for how long he wants cuddling. No cuddling for Angus but he presses up close to me on the chair or sofa. He likes to be petted, belly rubs, scritches behind ear etc.  

I think you'll have a great time with your new little friend. Good luck with him and keep us up to date when you have the chance.

 

[sunvalleylaw]

Ok thanks everyone.  I did try a short walk on an old dog chain we had and she responded fine, once she got used to having it on.  a lot less pulling as compared to the harness.  The one I used is too long, too heavy and does not have good action so I will replace it and use it.  She continues to allow herself to be re-directed to a nice dog bed if told to get off the furniture, but she does need to be told.  Also, this morning, she started finding some items such as socks and a flip flop that she needed to be told to drop and re-directed to her toys.  so maybe that is what you mean when you say some Cairn-ness may come out.   But pretty typical puppy stuff in my mind.  And she seems amenable to training as long as we stay consistent. Monty the Vizsla seems to enjoy her company too, which is really nice to see.  She settled down really well in the crate last night and slept all night again.  I will read through some threads in the behavior section to get more info on what Cairn-ness is, and for other tips.  Thanks for the warm welcome!

[Idaho Cairns]

Steve, welcome to the forum!  Sorry I was so late in catching up with a new Idaho participant--we were out of town for a few days and didn't take the computers. 
Glad to see you rescued your pup, that's how we got started with Cairns--our first and second were both rescues.  Once that Cairn bug bites, it's a done deal.
I know your area well, used to spend a lot of time up there, skiing, golfing, and partying--old Warm Springs Inn and down your way in Hailey.  Those were my much younger days.
Here's a picture of our girls in the ditch at Sun Valley Lodge and at the rink (during slack obviously) and you can see we use retractable leashes--these are like 20 years old and still do the job.  As far as off leash goes--I agree with your observations, ours do well in the sagebrush hills and valleys and we have never had a problem with other critters--I'm sure that Vizsla would keep any opportunistic coyote at bay.
Welcome aboard--neat reading your messages.

[sunvalleylaw]

1 hour ago, Idaho Cairns said:

Steve, welcome to the forum!  Sorry I was so late in catching up with a new Idaho participant--we were out of town for a few days and didn't take the computers. 
Glad to see you rescued your pup, that's how we got started with Cairns--our first and second were both rescues.  Once that Cairn bug bites, it's a done deal.
I know your area well, used to spend a lot of time up there, skiing, golfing, and partying--old Warm Springs Inn and down your way in Hailey.  Those were my much younger days.
Here's a picture of our girls in the ditch at Sun Valley Lodge and at the rink (during slack obviously) and you can see we use retractable leashes--these are like 20 years old and still do the job.  As far as off leash goes--I agree with your observations, ours do well in the sagebrush hills and valleys and we have never had a problem with other critters--I'm sure that Vizsla would keep any opportunistic coyote at bay.
Welcome aboard--neat reading your messages.

 

Warm Springs Inn!  That goes back.  Makes me hanker for a dinner scone.  Thanks for the pics!  Nice!

I am originally from Tacoma, but moved here in the late 90's after ski bumming in the late 80's and letting Warren Miller mess up my life.   Moved my young family over here then and have been living here ever since.  

As for the sage hills, hiked up Quigley hill, or Buttercup if you prefer, and put the Cairn on a cairn.  bribed her and Monty with a treat and barely got the shot taken.   She stayed on lead, but did very well, heeling behind me up the single track.  Mostly I think because Monty was cruising up behind this evening (off lead) and she wants to be where he is.  On the way down, if he started to move up front, there she wanted to go.  But responded well to light lead correction.  I think over time, she will be able to hike off lead with Monty.  For the benefit of the others, this is the terrain we hike, a short walk from the house (on Buttercup Road, very south end of the road, north east corner of Hailey.  The old Cutter's ranch for cutting horses is now a subdivision with a park with access to the BLM land there).  

 

Cairn (and Vizsla) on a cairn.  

Edited June 1, 2016 by sunvalleylaw

[Idaho Cairns]

That's what I'm talking about Steve!  We obviously don't let our Cairns off leash where there are dangers like roads and parking lots but on those hiking trails, our girls are just fine and as this video will show, follow instructions pretty good in the wild.  I would never suggest that anyone put their dogs in harm's way but our Cairns have, for the most part been amenable to voice commands and the "chase" mentality is pretty short lived if our experience with rabbits, squirrels, and deer are typical--once the object of their attention is out of sight, they tend to lose interest quickly--they aren't like hounds--one a beagle gets on a track, look out, it could be hours before you see it again!