Persistent puppy biting

[Mollysmum]

Hi,

 

This is my first post to this forum and my first Cairn (and first dog since I was a kid). Molly is 11 weeks old and is just adorable and we love her to bits. However, I am having no luck with teaching her not to bite in play.  The information in books, on the internet and from puppy school makes it sound so simple and assumes standard puppy response and co-operation. Whereas these techniques seem to be having little or no effect.

 

In addition to trying to ignore her biting and hold still until she releases (rarely happens!), I have been also been advised to scruff her and then lightly smack her, but I really don't want to do that and it seems to make her worse anyway.  

 

When she starts to bite my hand, I have been yelling "ouch" or make a yelp sound which I thought was meant to make her stop....it doesn't...usually she keeps going and her teeth are so sharp she often draws blood.  I like the idea of ignoring bad behaviour and rewarding good behaviour but I am finding this near impossible.  

 

She is clever and learned to sit very quickly. She also mostly comes when called.  Housetraining is another issue, but not my main problem at this stage.

 

Any advice on the best way to teach puppy Cairns bite inhibition would be greatly appreciated.  I am upset so often and feel that I am losing the battle with Molly.

 

Thanks for your help with this.

 

 

[hheldorfer]

Welcome to the forum, Mollysmum!  We have all been through this scenario and know how frustrating it can be.  There are a lot of posts on the subject and a lot of good suggestions for dealing with it.  If you search for "puppy biting" or just "biting" you'll probably find more than you can read in an evening.  

 

In the meantime, don't give up.  This is a common problem with puppies and it can be overcome.  Cairns, in particular, feel that they should rule both your life and the entire world so they are quite stubborn and persistent.  You have to be more stubborn and persistent - out-Cairn the Cairn.

[Dempsy's Mom]

Welcome Mollysmum!  Oh are you in for a treat.  Molly will fill up your life.  Nothing will be normal again.   Just curious, why did you choose a cairn?  You will find this forum very helpful during your years together with Molly.  I have never had a puppy so I can't give you any information on the nipping but there has been many discussions about it. Cairns will manipulate you and test you to your limits.  Once you let them know that you are the boss, they will usually fall in line.

 

Molly has already wormed her way deep into your heart.  Fun.  I have read the others, that have had puppies, say that they love to learn tricks.  Tricks help keep them from getting bored.  They like to learn.  Looking forward to hear more about Molly.  What color is Molly?

[Hillscreek]

Hello and welcome.

Relax your pup is a normal cairn.   Bitey and bossy. All cairns want to rule. No cairn wants to give up until completely convinced you mean what you say.

Different ways work for different dogs in different places. Experiment. Some respond to loud NO and/or yelp. Some respond to rolling on their side. Some respond to shunning. This last worked for me. When Angus used to use his teeth on me I immediately - I mean AT ONCE yelped, said NO BITING. Then spoke no more, just  him put him in his x-pen or when bigger in a hallway or another room (used baby gates) for a few minutes. Angus is extremely sociable and he hated this. I did this over and over till he got the message.

There are many many posts on this subject.

Just one other note  imo never never hit a dog. If I hit Angus he's be right in my face fighting back at me.

Rule a cairn by being smarter than them and by being more determined. 

Good luck. Let us know how things go. 

 

Patience, persistence, and a sense of humor will get you through.

We love pics. so please post one when you can.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Hillscreek

[Mollysmum]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and support. I will read more on the forum and keep trying.  It seems I have to get tough and determined with Molly.  Molly is testing me like I never expected.  

 

We have good days and less good days!  Yesterday was not so good, for me - Molly had a great day!

 

Dempsey's Mom:  We got a Cairn because I was looking for a dog that was low shedding, was confident and eventually would be good with kids (grandchildren visit). I was also interested in a real, no-nonsense breed.  I do think she fits the bill, but I didn't realise how much of a personal challenge it would be for me. Molly is brindle and very cute!

 

I also think I may have been treating her too much like a baby and so wasn't showing that I was the boss.  We now think I have to restrain myself from too many cuddles and babying...What does everyone think of that?

 

No, life will never be the same again. But I that's good and one of the reasons we wanted to have a dog in our life.  

 

I will post a photo.

[Mollysmum]

Keep in mind that she is a puppy and is teething, get some extra tough chew toys.  Try a cold raw carrot for her to chew on.  They have to gnaw on stuff to soothe the discomfort of the incoming teeth.

All this biting and chewing on things decreases dramatically after they are about  1/1/2 to 2 years old.

Thanks, I'll try the carrot.  I don't know that she has lost any teeth yet.  Biting for up to 2 years....gosh!

[jo_]

I went through the same thing with Jagger. I was in tears at times at my wit's end. But persistence and patience paid off. With the biting I would give a firm 'no bite' and hold her muzzle shut. If she was biting at my pant leg, which she always did when she wanted to play, I would roll her on her side until she let out her deep sigh which was a sign she had given in to me being boss (even if it was just for a few minutes!). Most of the biting ended much earlier than a year for us, the pant leg thing a bit longer. We noticed a huge change in overall maturity and obedience at just over a year old. 

 

I personally don't think there's such a thing as too many cuddles! Neither Jagger or Eddie were all that affectionate at a young age. I persisted. Now at 4 and 3, they are both very affectionate, unless of course they have better things to do ... squirrels, food, etc.

 

Hang in there. They are sooooo worth the effort!! 

[Mollysmum]

I went through the same thing with Jagger. I was in tears at times at my wit's end. But persistence and patience paid off. With the biting I would give a firm 'no bite' and hold her muzzle shut. If she was biting at my pant leg, which she always did when she wanted to play, I would roll her on her side until she let out her deep sigh which was a sign she had given in to me being boss (even if it was just for a few minutes!). Most of the biting ended much earlier than a year for us, the pant leg thing a bit longer. We noticed a huge change in overall maturity and obedience at just over a year old. 

 

I personally don't think there's such a thing as too many cuddles! Neither Jagger or Eddie were all that affectionate at a young age. I persisted. Now at 4 and 3, they are both very affectionate, unless of course they have better things to do ... squirrels, food, etc.

 

Hang in there. They are sooooo worth the effort!! 

 

 

Thanks jo.  Great suggestions and gives me hope.  In fact all replies have been constructive, supportive and definitely appreciated.

 

I will try to enjoy puppy, be strong and persistent and look forward to better times!

[pkcrossley]

everything you describe is classic cairn baby stuff. as you have already seen, there are many proposed solutions, not all work on all dogs, but at least one will work on any dog. i wonder if you have tried shunning. when she nips (or does anything you don't like), turn immediately and walk away. you can add a"time out" if you like --either in a crate or in a safe room like a bathroom or the laundry. most cairns (there are exceptions) cannot stand the embarrassment and the loneliness of having you just walk away. don't acknowledge her till she looks sorry. when she misbehaves again, leave her immediately. just something else to add to the arsenal. 

[lindasue]

Welcome to our world! Went thru the same thing with Pegi and got lots of great ideas on this forum. My husband even started calling her the "cairn terrorist"; a name that still sticks with her. I found the best advise was to flip her on her back and (gently) hold her down. She hates this! It stopped the biting and I also used it when on her walks when she would lunge for a truck.  Now, at 4 years old, I just have to say "Do I have to hold you down?" and she will immediately stop the bad behavior. 

[kieiras mom]

welcome to the forum. Please post pictures, we Love them!

[hheldorfer]

I noticed the pic of Molly on your profile today.  What a darling little girl!  I also saw on your profile that you are in Australia.  I think we have a few other Australian members, too.  Always a pleasure to have another member from outside the U.S.!

[arseovrteakettl]

Keep chew toys within reach wherever you are. Then when she starts to chew on you, stick the chew toy in her mouth. That's what I've been doing and it works well.

I've found that being mouthy is completely normal puppy behavior. They outgrow it naturally without training.

So baby her as much as you want, but keep a chewy always within reach.

[Lupinegirl]

Ooh boy. It's been over nine years and I still remember how frustrated I was with my boy. Biting was not our number one problem but it was one of the things I had to learn to work with. (Marking, jumping over or sneaking around blockades that I thought were puppy proof, and going to my room to find my favorite collectibles to destroy when he was left alone were my biggest hurdles with Nikki.)

Nikki loved chewing around a toy until he could reach my hand when he was a puppy. I tried to move quicker than him to avoid getting pinched, but he was a sneaky little devil. Sometimes I felt like I was playing with a beaver instead of a puppy! Lol.

Playing fetch with two balls was my main trick. He couldn't nip me when he was busy spitting out the ball he had just fetched and spinning around to race after the other. To this day, he still gets excited when I pick up two balls to play with.

Offering him something else to chase was also the best way for me to teach him to "drop it." He loved stealing but he loves trading even more because I always offer him something "better" in exchange. (I made a big deal over a toy and pretended it was more fun to play with than what he had. That convinced him! Lol.) Another trick I tried when I wanted to change his behavior was by asking him if he wanted a treat, making a big deal about going to the kitchen and searching for one, and then asking him to do a sit-stay before giving it to him.

Welcome to the forum, good luck finding what works for you both, and congrats on your new furry family member!

[Mollysmum]

Thank you all for your great suggestions and support.  Molly and I are getting there.  I am trying different things and so far, lots of chew toys and chasing games using the toys to distract her and tire her out, does help.  I also put her in a pen and try to ignore her (that is so hard as she is so cute...and insistent on my attention!)  It is good to hear that my experiences are common.  

[arseovrteakettl]

I'm really lazy -- I should add that when I substitute a chew toy for my hand, I hold it while the puppy is chewing on it.  If I don't they soon ignore the toy and are back to chewing on me again.  But if I hold it, they seem to regard it as an extension of my hand, and they settle down to chewing on it while sitting on me.  That way I can keep watching netflix or reading or emaling or whatever.  And I don't have to "entertain" them but they are still happy and quiet.

 

I think it's good to put them in a pen too -- it does teach them something about their place in the household.

[Lupinegirl]

I did the same thing, arseovrteakettl: I held the toy (or bone) in my hand while my teething puppy chewed on it. It was good bonding time and about the only time I could relax with my little whirlwind.

[arseovrteakettl]

I had to add this: apparently I have trained Fuzz to,sit on me when he is chewing now, because whenever he has a chew toy he comes to me expecting to sit on me and hold the chew toy while he chews it.

It is ever so darling.

[Idaho Cairns]

Puppy biting is something I don't mess with--no play acting, feigned shunning, no chew toys as substitutes for the human hand, I want my pups to learn immediately that biting a human is NOT permitted.  This is basic training 101 for dogs of all breeds.  Here is one place where early training is essential and I have been successful simply grasping the offending pup by the nose with the web of my hand between the thumb and forefinger, wrapping the fingers around the nose and mouth tightly, looking the dog in the eye firmly, and just as firmly using either "NO!" or, if you like sophisticated communication, "NO BITE!".  At the same time I will use the other hand to force and hold the pup in a sitting position.  They may think you are playing with them once or twice and come right back with another attempt to bite but a couple of repeat performances usually does the trick.

Learning to not bite a human is as important as house training, if not more so--it is certainly more important than come, sit, stay, roll over, etc. because in the currently environment of "two bites and you are out" in many communities dogs simply must be taught to not even consider using the bite as a defense or offense against any person.

[arseovrteakettl]

Hm puppy chewing doesn't seem the same as biting to me - I mean the kind they do when they are 2-3 months old. They seem to leave it behind naturally - and Fuzz has. He never wants to chew my hand. I see the chew toy trick as a way to get through that chewy teething period.

But if you have a mouthy dog going on longer, I too have done the correction Idaho describes. Dog have very strong jaws for biting but not especially for opening their jaws, and holding their mouth closed really does get their attention.

[Sam I Am]

With Rosie right from the get go, at 8 weeks of age, we did the no bite command in a strict voice, with a gentle hand on the scruff of her neck. She learned within a few days that no bite, meant no bite, even in play. However, we did encourage her to bite her baby chew toys and even tugged on them with her. Now as an adult Scottie with monster teeth, if she gets excited and gets mouthy while we are rough housing with her, just a quiet reminder, of no bite, stops her in a nanosecond.

[Faith Quintins Mom]

I just got my 10 week old male cairn puppy Quintin and Boy are you ever right! I’m not sure if he is a rodent or a mountain lion but can he bite with those needle teeth. I came on here to see how long it lasts. I’m doing most of what has been suggested but I’m kind of glad for staying at home because my arms and ankles look like I’ve been in the briar patch. 

[bradl]

Welcome  aboard Faith Quintins Mom.  The sharpness of puppy teeth is legendary, and their desire to use them insatiable.   

[Hillscreek]

Biting pretty typical for a cairn puppy. Deal with this as soon as you can. See people's comments and suggestions. 

 

[pkcrossley]

it can last a while. i guess you can have some influence over it --let him know he is hurting you, but don't reward him by acting afraid, flinching or getting angry (some cairns think it is a kick to make their humans mad). i believe even puppy cairns distinguish well between somebody getting hurt and somebody getting mad. they start out thinking that you don't feel little bites any more than they do. let him know that's not true. high drama can help. move to another room and leave him behind. he will get the message. optimally he will start thinking before he bites and you might be on your way to a cure. if not, there are more tools to try to get things under control. in the meantime make sure he has plenty of legitimate teething outlets.