Strange story of Cairn origins

[hheldorfer]

We had a yard sale today and, as anyone who has ever had a yard sale knows, we encountered some odd characters. One was a woman who arrived with her poodle in tow (Buffy and Ziggy were confined to the house) and proceeded to examine everything offered, sharing her observations about each item. DH and I petted the poodle and mentioned that we have two dogs. This interested her greatly, especially when we mentioned we had a Cairn terrier. DH made a passing comment about how tough Cairns are and she was kind enough to educate us on the origins of the Cairn terrier. She said: "You know they were bred to kill rats in the coal mines. The rats in the mines would bite the mules' feet and hurt them, so they brought Cairns in to kill the rats."

When she departed - after sharing the fact that she breeds Golden Doodles and is NOT a bad person for doing so - we pondered this tale. There must have been giant, mule-eating rats in the coal mines in the older days!

[Idaho Cairns]

I don't doubt for a minute that some terriers, probably some Cairns, were used to kill rats in Welsh coal mines. By every account I have read about those mines almost any horror is possible. I have seen mine on mice and voles so I know what a Cairn can do to vermin--"Lights out Mr. Ratso!"

[Lynn in TN]

I live in Tennessee, but it is close to the Virginia line and a lot of coal mining towns are close. A lot of people in our area work in the mines. I recently took Kelly to Lowes and met an older man, he said he was 89. He new what breed Kelly was and said when he was a young man he worked in the coal mines and a Scottish forman brought in several Cairn Terriers because they were having a lot of rat problems. He said he loved the breed and watching them in action killing the rats were amazing. He said he couldn't understand what happened to them all because a lot of the mines had these dogs working with them, and that he hadn't seen one in 40 years.

[bradl]

Most dogs will rat if given the opportunity and given all the other sterling qualities of Cairns they would be my choice too, if I had a rat-infested mine.

They have also been used to good effect in areas plagued with flying monkeys.

[Idaho Cairns]

Yes, it is good to remember that when lions, straw men, iron men, and little girls ran away, the Cairn stood and fought to the end until overwhelmed!

[Ivy & Lucy's Mom]

RIght you are Idaho!!

[Hillscreek]

Stand and fight......... Should be the cairn motto

[hheldorfer]

I have no doubt that Cairns are excellent ratters and I have witnessed Buffy's prey drive in action, and I don't doubt that a Cairn would happily descend into a mine to kill vermin. I just thought the story about rats biting the "mules' feet" was a little far-fetched.

By the way, Buffy could have taken her poodle down in a heartbeat.

[bradl]

I look forward to her book, as the literature is a bit light in this area

[Newman]

I made a topic a couple days/week's ago I think, fonzy killed 2 baby rats so far in the backyard, I think that girl has some truth to her story

Fonzy doesn't mean to kill them, I mean he just snaps them in his mouth and wobbles his head back and forth 20 times, LOL

Edited August 25, 2012 by Newman

[Autumn & Lola]

It's the mule part that baffles me as well. Can a mule get down in a coal mine???

[pkcrossley]

the welsh had a famous breed of tiny ponies that worked in their mines. rats would certainly do a job on the feet of these little creatures. i have no doubt some welsh miner sent north to his scots brother to have some cairns sent down to take care of things.

scottish farms, welsh mines, kansas cornfields --face it, we would be here at all if it weren't for cairns.

[Zekey's Mom]

Never mind the mules, it's a wonder that the rats didn't bite the miners!!

[cairnrescueleague]

just based on a quick google search, the dogs may have been yorkies(!) rather than cairns - The exact origins of the Yorkshire Terrier are obscure. What is amply certain is that its original purpose was to control rats in the factories, coal mines and textile mills of Yorkshire, in northern England, during the Industrial Revolution.

[hheldorfer]

Thanks for that info, cairnrescueleague! Yorkies, eh? Most of the people I know who have Yorkies would be appalled at the thought of their dogs chasing rats in a dirty coal mine.

[Idaho Cairns]

Why am I having a thought that almost any terrier from Great Britain might well share the "rats in a coal mine" purpose? I have a feeling that you could walk down the street with an Airedale and someone would approach with a comment: "You know what those were bred to do don't you?" and out would come coal mines and mule feet.

Still it is hard to believe that the Yorkies we know and love ever tangled with a "rat" anywhere except in a Yorkie's yappy little imagination. I know they have the will and the want to do the deed but I question the ability.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Idaho Cairns

[hheldorfer]

I don't have an extensive knowledge of canine origins but I believe that Yorkies - like many of the smaller breeds - have been primped and pampered for so long that we no longer recognize them as the ratters/hunters they were meant to be. Still, it would be interesting to see what would happen if a citified, pampered Yorkie was set loose with a few rats in the vicinity.

Speaking of which: Have any of our earth dog folks ever encountered Yorkies at a trial?

[Ivy & Lucy's Mom]

Our cairns have remained tough over time, even though pampered and yes, spoiled.

[_whits_]

Speaking of which: Have any of our earth dog folks ever encountered Yorkies at a trial?

As far as I know, Yorkies were only JUST allowed to participate in Earthdog.

Addie and I are off to our first trial next month. I'll let you know if we see any Yorkies . . . or mules for that matter!

[Hillscreek]

Earlier Yorkshire terriers were more robust than today's dogs. They were developed in the county of Yorkshire in England for ratting in the clothing mills there.

[bradl]

Pro-tip to sound like an expert at earthdog: events are technically tests. Trials (obedience, agility, etc.) have placements (1,2,3, etc.) but in earthdog no dog is compared to any other dog. A dog either passes or fails a test.

Don't feel bad at all -- I know earthdog *judges* who say "trial"

[_whits_]

Pro-tip to sound like an expert at earthdog: events are technically tests. Trials (obedience, agility, etc.) have placements (1,2,3, etc.) but in earthdog no dog is compared to any other dog. A dog either passes or fails a test.

Don't feel bad at all -- I know earthdog *judges* who say "trial"

Thanks brad! I'll take that advice with me to Addie's first Earthdog test next month!

[josie&holly]

From Wikipedia - Yorkshire Terrier History " perhaps but?

"The Yorkshire Terrier originated in Yorkshire (and the adjoining Lancashire), a rugged region in northern England.^[16] In the mid-19th century, workers from Scotland came to Yorkshire in search of work and brought with them several different varieties of small terriers. Breeding of the Yorkshire Terrier was "principally accomplished by the people—mostly operatives in cotton and woolen mills—in the counties of Yorkshire and Lancashire."^[17] Details are scarce. Mrs. A. Foster is quoted as saying in 1886, "If we consider that the mill operatives who originated the breed...were nearly all ignorant men, unaccustomed to imparting information for public use, we may see some reason why reliable facts have not been easily attained."^[18]

What is known is that the breed sprang from three different dogs, a male named Old Crab and a female named Kitty, and another female whose name is not known.^[19] The Paisley Terrier, a smaller version of the Skye Terrier that was bred for a beautiful long silky coat, also figured into the early dogs. Some authorities believed that the Maltese was used as well.^[20] "They were all originally bred from Scotch terriers (note: meaning dogs from Scotland, not today's Scottish Terrier) and shown as such...the name Yorkshire Terrier was given to them on account of their being improved so much in Yorkshire."^[18] Yorkshire Terriers were shown in a dog show category (class) at the time called "Rough and Broken-coated, Broken-haired Scotch and Yorkshire Terriers". Hugh Dalziel, writing in 1878, says that "the classification of these dogs at shows and in the Kennel Club Stud Book is confusing and absurd" in lumping together these different types.^[21]

In the early days of the breed, "almost anything in the shape of a Terrier having a long coat with blue on the body and fawn or silver coloured head and legs, with tail docked and ears trimmed, was received and admired as a Yorkshire Terrier"."

or look at http://www.ytca.org/history.html which differs somewhat!

[tlwtheq]

What an interesting topic! Thanks everyone! (...for the info and the giggles...)

[pkcrossley]

yes, it is absurd. i don't have time to look this up right now so am going only on memory: i think that the DNA combined with genealogical studies (as contrasted to just looking at the dogs and deciding what is what) showed that all

"Skye" (western Scotland) terriers, including Dandy Dinmot, are closely related to each other and also fairly closely related to Airedales, and that the English terriers (Yorkie, Norwich, etc) are not very closely related at all. The bloodlines are believed to have diverged c. 400 years ago. They are about as related to each other as either is to Schnauzer. will try to track down the research when i have time; for now, that's my memory of it.