Thinking about puppies

[jodi0553]

Hi Friends,

Just thought I'd drop a line and say hi and maybe even get a little bit of advice. Guess what? I have puppies on the brain! I'm not yet ready for a puppy, as the pain of our loss is still very raw. This past weekend marked the anniversary of bringing Currey home with us 6 years ago and it hurt a lot. However, I'm thinking that I might be ready in 6 months or so and am starting to wonder what the proper timeline is for thinking about these things.

So, for those of you who breed or have recently worked with a reputable breeder, what is a usual timeline for adoption of a puppy? If I start contacting breeders now, would they have already promised litters being born in April or May (or maybe even March) to their forever homes? Do most reputable breeders have wait lists? I'm new to all of this; Currey was a wonderful dog, but I didn't know any better and he came from a decent backyard breeder. While I met his parents and the litter was well cared for and he was the light of my life, I can't help but think that just maybe his cancer could have had a genetic component linked to his breeding. When speaking to the vet at the specialty clinic, she mentioned that she rarely sees gravely ill young mutts. When she sees these types of illnesses, it is almost always purebreds. I would argue that this is most likely attributed to the fact that far more purebreds come from puppy mills than do mutts and I would guess that she sees far more puppy mill dogs with illnesses, not far more purebreds. However, I really know very little about Currey's lineage and I suspect that his sire was a puppy mill dog from the little research I did at the time.

Finally, if anyone can recommend a breeder in eastern NY, western mass or southern vermont, please PM me. I have already contacted some breeders listed by CTCA, but a recommendation would be lovely. And don't forget to PM! Don't get this post booted!

Jodi

[Idaho Cairns]

Jodi, logically Vets are going to see more cancers and illnesses in pure bred dogs for the simple reason that most owners of purebred dogs have an investment in their dogs, both psychologically (they love the breed) or monetary (pure bred dogs cost money to acquire) --as a whole, pure bred dogs probably get better veterinary care than the "mutt"--they go to the vet more often. Some breeds are particularly susceptible to deadly cancers--it almost comes with the territory. Obviously "mutts" avoid some of genetic problems you might encounter with pure bred dogs however, with mutts, you don't get exactly what you want either.

I don't know of any genetic defects running in Cairns but there might well be, I don't keep up with these sorts of things.

No advice to give from the perspective of a breeder--I have never raised a litter. I did get my last dog from the internet however and she has turned out to be simply wonderful, great personality, looks, and healthy as any dog I have ever owned. I bought her from a breeder 1500 miles away, never saw her in person, but I did have a couple of videos to look at showing her interacting with humans and her litter mates--I had pictures and I had several references to prior buyers from this breeder. By the time I made my decision I felt I had adequate information. Internet shopping does require you put alot of faith in the breeder but if you do your homework, make sure the breeder has the proper designations, willingly gives references you can acquire a pretty good dog.

[Dempsy's Mom]

Oh, I look at Currey's little picture and I feel your grief. He is such a little cutie. I don't know anything about puppies or time frames but I am glad you have "puppies on the brain." One little lucky puppy coming up in your future sounds great to me Jodi.

[bradl]

Hi Jodi - I think the question of waiting lists and such varies by individual breeder.

I know some who keep a waiting list, although they may work through it based on additional factors, over the course of years. Other breeders won't use a waiting list because they may not like the idea of "puppies to order", or they may not want to disappoint someone if a litter is small, or they may want to reserve the right to put any given puppy in the best home they know of at the time the litter hits the ground, and having a list cramps their placement options.

The only way to know is to talk to them. My view is it's never to early to start the discussion. You just never know what can happen.

Some general trends I note - previous Cairn owners often have a edge in placements (as they already know the breed and have demonstrated compatibility). Some breeders jealously guard "great homes" for future puppies, while other breeders happily share news of excellent homes they learn of with fellow breeders if they don't happen to have any litter plans at the moment.

Were I you, I'd probably hit up a few dog shows over the next six months to enjoy the Cairns and chat up the exhibitors. I'd probably also call as many as you can that would be in what you would consider driving reach, and try to visit them, if only for "educational" purposes. The Cairn community is a small one.

Good luck!

[Sam I Am]

I agree with Bradl. Ask questions... lots of them. When I contacted one of the breeders in our area I asked her what tests would be done on the pups and were the parents tested for genetic problems. The lady that I hopefully will get a pup from was wonderful. She listed all the tests that had been done on the parents of the future litter (hopefully there will be girl for us.) She also asked me to come and visit the expecting couple... which I think is great.

One thing I have learned is that you should never be put off by asking questions. Ask what the health issues were in previous dogs that they had bred. I did this with our Scottie breeder and she was totally honest in her answers. If they are not answered in a way that makes you comfortable, find another breeder. A responsible breeder will be more than glad to provide you with as much information that they can. There are never any guarantees but starting off with the best information you can get is a positive step in the right direction.

[pkcrossley]

hi jodi, great to hear from you. i'm not surprised that the pain of currie's anniversary also produces a wish to give another little cairn a part of your life. this is a way of continuing currey's life, just what he would want.

i wouldn't take too seriously the idea that currey's cancer had a significant genetic component. it is true that some scotties have a marked genetic susceptibility to a handful of cancers, and lymphosarcoma is one of them. cairns and scotties have mutual ancestors, so it is possible that some cairns share some susceptibilities with scotties, but there is no evidence that the breed as a whole has any more vulnerability than any individual anywhere; the evidence suggests it is something that has developed in the scotty gene pool over the last century, and so probably has no implications for cairns, westies or their cousins. cairns are a lot more susceptible to progressive retinal atrophy, heart disease, liver shunt, and orthopedic problems than to any kind of cancer. not only are cairns as a group not known to have any special susceptibility, but even animals (and people) with susceptibility may not develop any cancer, because the chemistry of the gene's oncogenic environment is so complex (and so many people with no genetic susceptibility --other than being alive-- may develop cancer anyway). and unfortunately even very good breeders usually don't keep complete enough records on their litters to know how many dogs developed cancers or tumors later in life, so subtle genetic influences cannot be noted or interpreted.

the point is: you can avoid red flags (like, ten percent of dogs in a lineage contract cancer), but unless there are real red flags (as with scotties) we are at the mercy of happenstance. the wrong gene chemistry in the wrong spot on the wrong day.

what you have on your side is that lightning doesn't strike twice (usually). go forth with confidence, and take the dog you like.

i hope this goes smoothly for you, and you enjoy the giddy anticipation of a new arrival.

[Sam I Am]

Yes as PK mentioned Scotties have very high rates of cancer (we lost our Scottie to cancer) . It was probably the biggest reason that we decided on getting another Cairn as apposed to another Scottie. Although I am sure if one came our way it would be very difficult to say no. A friend of mine loves miniature schnauzers but after having two of them both afflicted with a lot of health issues, as much as it broke her heart, she opted for another breed. We all get old and as a good friend always says "None of us are getting out of here alive". So go for it life is to short to be without a dog... especially a Cairn

[cairnsby3]

I agree with Brad, start talking and asking questions now. If you find a breeder you really like, that does all the health testing, and if you have met their dogs, and like the temperment of their line, sometimes it can take awhile for them to have a puppy that they want to sell to a pet home, especially if you have any "must haves". My only "must have" related to sex and for Spring it took 5 months. Shiner was already born but it still took a couple of months for his breeders to decide to sell him to a non-conformation showing home.

[Kathryn]

Hi Jodi - I was so glad to see you posting, as I have thought occasionally about you (and of course Currey). I have nothing to add about the genetic risks or benefits of various dogs. I'm just responding to your post to let you know I am delighted you will open your home, heart and life to another cairn. Good luck in your search for the next best little pup in the whole world.

[Tami]

I would definitely start talking to potential breeders now. We're hopeful that we'll be getting a second puppy sometime this April and we've been talking to our breeder for over a year now. The first litter had girls but one was already spoken for and the second was a potential show dog so we couldn't get her. Since we really want our second dog to be female we decided to wait for another litter. This one was just born a week ago but there's only one female so we're keeping our fingers crossed that she's not a potential show dog. Fortunately our breeder is very helpful and will refer you to another breeder if they have puppies available. That's how we got Fearghus .. she steered us to someone who had boys available. And we couldn't be happier.

As everyone else has said, do your research and speak to a few breeders to get an idea of who you'd like to work with. By the time that puppies are available perhaps you'll be ready to open your home to one, if not then there's always the next litter later in the year. I'd say that it's far more important for you to feel comfortable and confident that the breeder you choose is selecting good breeding matches.

Good luck!

[hheldorfer]

Jodi, I have no advice on breeders as I have never dealt with one but I'm delighted to hear that you're thinking of adding another Cairn to your home. I know we're biased but you should be at the top of any breeder's list of possible homes. Good luck!

[lindasue]

Jodi, I will send you an email w/the name of the breeder we used - they are from Canada, but there are quite a few people on this forum who have used the same breeder - Pegi has lots of doggie half siblings around. They come to western mass (Springfield) frequently and CT for dog shows, and I actually met them at a rest stop to pick Pegi up. We exchanged emails and photos, and the came w/great recommendations. Also, they have 2-3 litters per year. They were wonderful, and I would go back to them in a second if I could talk the DH into a second dog (took him 3 years after our last dog passed away before we talked him into Pegi!).

[Hawkeye]

Jodi, it is nice to hear from you and so happy to hear you are thinking of another cairn in the near future. I would like to second lindasue's post. I also used this breeder for both Bailey and Radar and would not hesitate going back to them. I don't think it's too early to start as it can take several months until a pup is available. I know when we were looking for Radar a litter was available immediately but I ask if I could wait until the next matting as I was not ready that soon. So you could put your name on a list. Please keep us posted.

[pindrop]

Hi Jodi - I too may not have too much to offer but am so happy to hear that you may be looking into another little addition to your home. Nothing like puppy breath to melt your heart. Layla's breeder is in Maine and her sire is from New Brunswick. Good luck with your search and will enjoy seeing any updates.

[jodi0553]

Thank you all for your advice and support! I'm working on DH now...he's not as close to ready as I am but he is somewhat intrigued by my idea to try to aim for a summer arrival, as we both know that my lighter summer schedule will mean that most of the housebreaking and crazy puppy time will actually be my responsibility and he can skip a lot of that part. I have made a couple contacts and have my fingers crossed that one will be the right one for us. Keep the info rolling in. I'm a science nerd - there's no such thing as too much information for me!

[lindasue]

Summer is a great time for a puppy; we got Pegi on November 1 (groan for the timing) - Indy, the dog before her, came on July 1. It was MUCH easier to train Indy than Pegi!