Fonzy got in fight...

[Newman]

Okay, so whenever my sister uses the power mixer, u know the blender to make shakes and stuff? Well it's really loud, and whenever she uses it, FONZY Goes nuts! and grabs his bone and shakes his face left to right really fast and jumps literally almost on the counter to try to attack it...

Well bad news is... he was doing that today, and my grandma told my sister to put him outside before my sister uses the blender.. Well... my sister forgot to.... and (Luckily I was home).. but my sister started to blend.. and all of a sudden I hear these screams from the dogs (I was on the computer) so i rush/ran as fast as I could into the kitchen and I guess the other dog (Odie) he is a shihtzu, he was trying to tell fonzy to stop it or something or w/e but they got in a fight.. and this was a bad one. I grabbed fonzy by the kneck skin and yanked him away, i tried lightly slapping him but wouldn't work, so I quickly went to get the water on the counter, and I poured it all over BOTH OF the dogs but didn't work....

Fonzy's big mouth was just RIGHT INSIDE odie's left ear and fonzy wouldn't let go... poor Odie's ear is all bleeding and eh.. it's just gross..

But this fight was 1 of the worst ones, literally kept going for like almost a full 2minutes! The one's before when he wasn't nuetered, it usually lasted 20seconds/etc, but fonzy wanted to him dead, vice versa, these dogs fight until death, I can tell when Im right in the middle and see both of there facial expressions/etc. If I wasn't there.. my sister woulda've of done anything and let them fight probably until 1 of them collapses or something.. then my mom would just love to come home from work with her dog just laying there on the floor.. My sister got yelled at by my grandma... I would have to.. she didn't let fonzy outside.. her fault, not the dogs fault.. the dog's play with each other/etc/etc all the time..

But you're probably wondering how the heck did I get fonzy off? Well the fight was going on for about 3minutes.. and I couldn't think of anything.. The expression on poor odie's face almost made me cry while I was trying to yank fonzy off.. so all I did was get my left hand and i started to poke around fonzy's genital area and his butt area i just started to poke around that area with my finger, and then FONZY REACTED quickly and LET Go of odie to try to bight my FINGERS, then I quickly move my fingers/hand up quickly and YANK fonzy up by his kneck skin to get him away from odie...

But seriously, Thank god I was home... horrible fight.. made the rest of my day feel like crap, having the images of the dog's faces while they were fighting in my head...

[pkcrossley]

hm, quite a free for all. i've had a cairn and shih-tsu together, and when problems arise it is definitely not a fair fight. if you have checked odie over and he seems fine, he probably is fine --ears do bleed quite a lot when scratched or cut, but heal up pretty well. if i were odie i would certainly not want to be alone with fonzy for quite a while.

my cairn always went for the ears when trying "correct" his shih-tsu brother. it's good and bad. good because it shows the cairn is not trying to inflict serious harm (as going for the neck, say, or eyes) but is trying to teach the other dog a lesson by pulling on its scalp hair or ears (usually giving the death shake while holding onto the hair). so, bad because fonzy has no business correcting odie, or pulling on him or anything else.

if fonzy got the message that you seriously disapprove of this, he will probably try to control himself better in future, but a young cairn can have overwhelming impulses that might jump over his best intentions. it sounds like in this case fonzy was all kindled up by the power mixer, and then in a state of aggravation or fear or anger or whatever was put in a situation where he turned around and there was odie. poor odie.

this sounds to me like a fairly typical dust-up. fonzy is still fonzy, even though he had a bad day. and odie will need some attention to keep his confidence up and make him feel safe. they will both get past it. but clearly, fonzy needs a strict program of socialization to keep him moving in a gentlemanly direction. have you read here of NILIF? it sounds like fonzy is a candidate now.

[Lynn in TN]

That sounds like a bad fight to me. I hope it doesn't happen again. I hate fights.

[bradl]

Fights are terrible.

One way I've had good luck with in getting dogs separated without getting bit myself is to grab one (the aggressor, if I can manage it) by both hind legs, and then back slowly away, dragging the dog (or dogs) slowly along the floor. By pulling gently backward, in a circle or even back and forth in gentle arcs, they have to sort of scrabble to get their footing back. That seems to deflate them a bit as they have no leverage for their attack. They also can't flex back enough to bite me (as long as I am moving them - if you stop moving, they most definitely can fold back on themselves to reach you). Keep moving until they let go and/or give up.

For snappy dogs, I try never to approach them from the front. My goal is usually to slip both hands up along their neck to gain control of their head, from behind. Picture hands on either side of the neck, thumbs meeting behind the occiput, with fingers wrapped around under the jaw and around the neck, but up tight against the lower jaw.

To make a dog let go of something, I usually slide my hand down along the top of the muzzle, from the back towards the snout, and squeeze their upper lips against their teeth about mid-way or near the nose end. They usually open their mouths - I learned the hard way that I was not going to pry open the mouth of a dog that doesn't want to open wide. I watched a vet get a stubborn mouth open with just two fingers applied to the muzzle. Aha! That works nicely when I have to a pill a dog. (I'm not putting my hand anywhere near the business end of a dog who's fighting.)

[gt_mustang_gal]

My coworker tried to separate her two Golden Retrievers and she came away with one less finger and several months of surgeries on her hand. So always be careful when trying to separate two fighting dogs!

[sanford]

I've never had to deal with anything more than aggressive skirmishes, but when they happened, it seemed like the end of the world and my adrenaline level went into the stratosphere. That's just to say that I have some idea of what you must have been through and wanted you to know that I feel bad that you had to experience this, but I also appreciate that you had the presence of mind to pour water on the dogs and then to do whatever it was you did to Fonzy by poking him... where???? I'm not sure I really want to know, but then again it sounds like it worked as well as grabbing the dogs by their back legs or tails, which is what we're told to do, so maybe you found a new, improved way to break up a fight!

I'm surprised and relieved that you didn't get hurt... We're all told not to put our hands near 2 fighting dogs.

Hope Odie recovers OK.

[pkcrossley]

yes, a cairn fighting, particularly fighting another cairn, is horrifying. even if they are not fighting for blood, but just doing a lot of angry snapping, it is a sight every cairn owner is shaken by the first time. i think some never think of their dogs the same again. if you have a heart condition, stay away. but it is inherent to the breed --they were bred to fight for their lives, and even if they not really fighting for their lives they think acting like they are fighting for their lives is the best strategy. completely terrifying.

you showed excellent presence of mind, a necessity with dealing with these things. if you handle fonzy right you won't see this too many times again in your life. but i'm afraid every cairn owner will see it at least once.

i would give a few additional points here to the ruffwear harness. being able to pick up a dog in full fusion by a handle is a real advantage.

[Newman]

I've never had to deal with anything more than aggressive skirmishes, but when they happened, it seemed like the end of the world and my adrenaline level went into the stratosphere. That's just to say that I have some idea of what you must have been through and wanted you to know that I feel bad that you had to experience this, but I also appreciate that you had the presence of mind to pour water on the dogs and then to do whatever it was you did to Fonzy by poking him... where???? I'm not sure I really want to know, but then again it sounds like it worked as well as grabbing the dogs by their back legs or tails, which is what we're told to do, so maybe you found a new, improved way to break up a fight!

I'm surprised and relieved that you didn't get hurt... We're all told not to put our hands near 2 fighting dogs.

Hope Odie recovers OK.

Yeah, I agree! The problem was.. I tried everything stated above... When they got into fights before I usually just grabbed fonzy's mouth and ripped it open to get off Odie's ear (CUZ he will not let go!).. and I learned the hard way off that ofcourse, that was 7-10months ago though. ( 2 bite marks on both thumbs right in the middle lol) Hurt like a b-word, but I recovered, but I was sick of getting myself hurt over them it's pointless. But it's also the sacrifice I must make so 1 of them doesn't end up hurt or dead, which I am perfectly fine with, if I takes a bite to my finger or wrist to get him off then so beat. Odie is my mom's dog and if anything ever happened to odie I would feel guilty by all means. I love my mom and want nothing to do with the death or the veterinarian bill for Odie.

I used to try to grab like a paper towel roller and put it in the middle of them fighting so fonzy will LATCH onto it by his mouth, then yank him off, but That only worked like 2 times, then fonzy learned not to do that anymore....

I tried pulling the legs like bradl suggested, but it doesnt work at all, because fonzy doesn't let go at all and poor odie get's dragged across the floor by his left or right ear... It just doesn't work, puts more stress on odie, poor thing...

I could try bradl's way from the lower kneck onto the jaw, but I would be pretty scared..

But like I said, the only way fonzy actually let go is if I start poking around his family jewels/etc ( he is fixed, so he doesn't have anything to worry about) But it gets his attention and if you're quick like me, you can snap your hand/fingers back before he bights them and pull him up away from the enemy (Odie)..

That is the only option that worked, the water stuff is horse crap, doesn't even come close to getting them apart it just makes it worse, also yelling and screaming makes it worse too, I should right a tutorial on this like bradl did!

[pkcrossley]

the picture is getting a bit more clear. fonzy is a repeat offender. you need to apply NILIF (read about it all over this forum) and get fonzy in line. he has no business biting you, or odie, or anybody. his impulses are very understandable, but he should be getting his impulses under better control.

don't take terriers lightly. they descend from dogs who proved their ability to fight very vicious animals like badgers to protect grain supplies and kitchen areas while the famers were busy doing other work. terriers worked on their own, without any humans to give them orders or back them up. everything we like about terriers is connected to their intelligence, ebullience, creativity, courage, and their tendency to try to take charge when they see the opportunity. none of these qualities can be divorced from their impulse to fight, or threaten to fight, to get their way or get annoying people or dogs off their backs.

terriers have an inborn sensitivity about being cornered, or having their space invaded, or having fingers or noses stuck in their faces --these are all triggers connected to their hereditary preparation to do battle with mean and dangerous critters in very close spaces. young terriers who feel themselves pushed over a limit sometimes launch into a frenzy in which they may bite people and other dogs before they even know what is happening. spoiled terriers are allowed to keep their frenzy threshold low, and they quickly learn to use frenzy for fun and profit. they become a worry, perhaps even a danger, to other pets and to people (they are actually most dangerous to themselves, since in today's society there is neurotic intolerance of dogs who bite even once, for any reason). but as they mature terriers can learn to raise the threshold at which they lose it, and restrain themselves, and find other ways to deal with their aggravation. they have to be guided in that. NILIF is a good way to bring a sense of perspective and self-control to a terrier. and maybe to yourself.

for fonzy's own safety and the happiness of your household, i do recommend that you set rules for him and enforce them very calmly, but with complete consistency. he will be happier when he doesn't feel he has to run everything. the good thing is that he has obviously not succeeded in intimidating you. keep it that way, and make sure that anybody who is intimidated by fonzy is put at ease. fonzy will not get over this until he is absolutely convinced that he cannot intimidate anybody, no matter how much he puts on the tasmanian devil act.

[Malcolm's Dad]

Oh dear. I had to laugh after I read the whole post. I know the fight was a scary thing, but I could just imagine Fonzy going "What the hell???" when you grabbed him in the back. Yep that was sure going to get his attention lol. Seriously it's good you got them separated however you had to do it.

PK has some great advice, it's time to get Fonzy in line. Remember though, training a dog is about training its owner too.