SAY WHAT?

[Idaho Cairns]

I have told this story before here but now I have the "proof", having gone thru the flash card on an old camera. Four years ago we spent the winter in Arizona, living in the motorhome for a few months, moving around to several different campgrounds. While at a wonderful campground near Phoenix an RV pulled in one afternoon and after they set up, the owner took his dog for a walk--one of the most lovely Cairns I had ever seen, silver-blue, this six month old pup was simply stunning:

As he neared our unit I was outside with my two Cairns and I rushed up to him and asked "Where in the world did you manage to find this little beauty? I have never seen a Cairn Terrier this color!". The guy looks at me and says "This isn't a Cairn Terrier! I bought him from the best Norwich Terrier breeder in Iowa!" My wife and I looked at each other, gulped and before I caught her narrowing her eyelids (the "secret" signal to "KEEP YOUR STUPID MOUTH SHUT!"), out it came--"B-lls--t, that's a Cairn!" Then, the DW's signal struck home and I was struck dumb--finally.

The guy snake faces me for about five seconds, turns on his heels and retreats to his RV where for the next two days he eyes me like I'm the village idiot cross bred with Charlie Manson--no more words were exchanged.

I have wondered so many times how much he paid for this "Norwich", knowing the going rate starts about two grand and up. I'll let you judge.

[pindrop]

I'm like you Idaho - if that's not a Cairn I'll eat YOUR hat. btw...he is a gorgeous color. Don't you ever wonder if down the road he found out it was a Cairn and the village idiot/Charles Manson was right? Wouldn't you have loved to have been a fly on the wall when that happened? Good story - glad you found that flash drive and now you can at least prove it to yourself and have the last laugh. We all know you're not a Village Idiot.

[KShep]

I've read this before. Norwich Terriers only have 1 or 2 pups in their litters. They are very expensive and there are lots of people trying to pass a Cairn off as a Norwich.

[cairnfan]

Great story! That's a cairn if I ever saw one, and a pretty one too! Was his tail docked? I've seen cairn rescue sites where the cairns have docked tails because the breeder was trying to pawn them off as Norwiches. It's amazing what people will do. Oh well, let the guy think he has a Norwich, but I'm sure Idaho wasn't the first person to make that comment

[Dempsy's Mom]

Cairn! and yes very pretty.

[TazTalk]

Norwhat?!?!?!

That really is a beautiful and unique color. I wonder what color the pup may have morphed into ... knowing that our Cairns show a kalaidescope of colors over the years.

[Idaho Cairns]

No the Cairn's tail wasn't docked--I think I would have croaked it had been. I mean I wanted to just pick this thing up and run with it, it had all the Cairn qualities, squared up to my two girls just like the little terrorist it was and it was so beautiful. I haven't even seen anything close to the color of this dog--from a distance it looked blue!

Eventually this guy is going to realize he didn't buy a Norwich and I hope that he has the good sense to understand, in his disappointment, that he has a wonderful little Cairn and hangs in there with the dog. I have seen some of these that have been turned over to rescue agencies once the ruse was discovered and that is a shame. You would think that people spending the kind of money it takes to get a Norwich would be more educated about physical attributes and color--so far as I know, Norwich's are red/black, red, or brown--never gray or silver. I know that Norwich's are great little terriers with plenty of personality even tho I haven't spent a lot of time with one, the few moments I have, impressed me. Saying that, I still prefer the Cairn, if for no other reason, because they are somewhat larger and, I suspect, more rugged.

[Lynn in TN]

That is a Cairn! What a beautiful color too! When I was doing my research on Cairns to make sure they would fit in with our family, I researched other breeds too. You are right I didn't see grey or silver listed in the colors for Norwich but I did see alot of warnings about Cairns being sold as a Norwichs. I'll bet he did his homework when he got home and found out you were right.

I can't believe that so many people would give them up just because they weren't what they thought they were.

[kintra]

...oh dear!

While I can't say I know 100%, but I typically don't see Norwich Terriers at shows in Iowa unless they're with handlers, so I'm curious as to who the "top Norwich breeder in Iowa is"?

[hheldorfer]

I'm certainly no expert on dog breeds but that little beauty looks as Cairnlike as they come. I had to laugh at your description of the encounter, though - DW giving you The Look as the words tumbled out of your mouth.

I have to wonder whether the guy knew darned well he had a Cairn but was trying to pass it off as a Norwich to make it seem that he had a hoity-toitier dog than yours. Maybe it was RV envy that prompted his reaction??

It's too bad that some people are so wrapped up in their dogs' lineage and status that they can't just relax and enjoy them as the great companions that they are. We have a guy who frequents the dog park with his little beagle. One day DH commented that the dog obviously wasn't neutered and asked why. The guy responded that his beagle is a descendant of some lah-de-dah beagle and he wants to breed the dog someday. The dog may have beagle in his genes and may have papers saying he's a beagle, but the poor thing is overweight, arthritic and very un-beagle-like in his appearance and demeanor. My guess is that people aren't lining up at his door to have their puppies sired by him.

[KShep]

Saying that's a Norwich is almost as ridiculous as saying it's a Great Dane!

[remltr]

Don't hate me, but I did a little searching and found this site that lists gray as a possible color for a norwich terrier:

http://www.pupcity.com/dog-breeds/norwich-terrier.asp

And I found this one that did not say a word about it, unless grizzle is also considered gray:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/norwich_terrier/index.cfm

I guess I would tend to agree with Idaho on this as I have never heard of pup city as an authority on breeds.

Idaho, a question for you. Did you take the picture before or after your remarks?

My first thought when I read this post was the scene in Seinfeld where Jerry, George and Elaine are at the coffee and discussing let's just say male prowess:

George: You faked?

Elaine: On occasion.

Jerry: And the guy never knows?

Elaine: No.

Jerry: How can he not know that?

Elaine: Because I was gooood.

Jerry: I guess after that many beers he's probably a little groggy anyway.

Elaine: You didn't know

Jerry: What about the breathing, the panting... the moaning, the screaming?

Elaine: {smiles} Fake, fake...fake, fake!

[Lynn in TN]

Don't hate me, but I did a little searching and found this site that lists gray as a possible color for a norwich terrier:

http://www.pupcity.com/dog-breeds/norwich-terrier.asp

And I found this one that did not say a word about it, unless grizzle is also considered gray:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/norwich_terrier/index.cfm

I guess I would tend to agree with Idaho on this as I have never heard of pup city as an authority on breeds.

Idaho, a question for you. Did you take the picture before or after your remarks?

My first thought when I read this post was the scene in Seinfeld where Jerry, George and Elaine are at the coffee and discussing let's just say male prowess:

George: You faked?

Elaine: On occasion.

Jerry: And the guy never knows?

Elaine: No.

Jerry: How can he not know that?

Elaine: Because I was gooood.

Jerry: I guess after that many beers he's probably a little groggy anyway.

Elaine: You didn't know

Jerry: What about the breathing, the panting... the moaning, the screaming?

Elaine: {smiles} Fake, fake...fake, fake!

Why would any one hate you. I'm glad you found this.After I went to bed I was thinking about some of the terrier breed puppies and how similar they look. It would be almost impossible to tell them apart unless you are a breeder.I'm no expert either but I still say it is a Cairn.

[josie&holly]

I too think that it is a Cairn.

I have met someone with a red Norwich Terrier when I was walking Holly in the local Country park. Her dog was a lovely red and I thought that was a small Cairn! When I said that she was very indignant and said the dog was a Norwich terrier [which I had not come across before] and when you looked at her against Holly you could see that she was shorter legged and body and the face was sharper too. I said about the colour saying that you got red Cairns but she said that you would never find a Norwich with the colour like Holly [red brindle and dark face] as it was just not a Norwich thing. She said they never had grey [Holly at that time needed stripping so looked a lot greyer than red] in their coats. Cute little dog but bit snappy at Holly.

I think you would have to show that photo to someone who had a Norwich and knew a lot about them to get any different opinions.

[jo_]

Either way that is one BEAUTIFUL dog!

[Idaho Cairns]

I got the picture on the first encounter at the edge of our site--I always keep the point and shoot handy. All I would have managed after the remarks was the hind end--which might have been useful now that I think about it. I have very limited experience with Norwich's but the ones I have seen have been almost exclusively red or black and tan W/O a "mask", much shorter legged as well. I have been around a few Cairn pups tho and this dog's behavior and looks would cause anyone to start humming "Over the Rainbow"!

I will say this, I have seen few Cairns that were this saturated with light gray hair--he was a stunner in that manner.

[finncaraid]

What a beautiful dog! Have had the opportunity in the last few months to meet 3 Norwiches. All were shades of red, all had a distinctive look. From a distance, they looked like a Cairn. Up close, as close as you got to take the pic, it was obvious they were not. I'm far from being a terrier expert, but, when you look at a Cairn every waking moment (& for me, even in my dreams) you know exactly what they look like. If you were convinced initially it was a Cairn, there's no doubt it was. And, yeah, if I had a dime for every time I did open mouth, insert foot, I’d have a ranch to raise free range Cairns by now

[Hawkeye]

I love the coloring on the dog, how unique! I also feel it looks like a cairn, but then again I'm not an expert. I've read on the internet (many sites) how they are taking the cairns and docking their tails and trying to pass them off as Norwich terriers...simply awful.

I thought it was funny thou how your wife's look didn't register...hehehe

[Sam I Am]

Found this link. It seems these little hair balls come in many lovely shades

http://www.lachleen.dk/uk/Farver.htm

[Rohnda]

I'm still learning about terriers as Luigi is our first. But I agree with everyone here that little dog is a cutie.

[kintra]

For Terriers, the term "grizzle" means a coat that is red/black hairs intermixed

[DawnandTuk-tuk]

Great story, and beautiful CAIRN!

I'm with the person who said that if the guy was so adamnant that he had a Norwich you would think he'd know a bit more about his breed. I'm always amused by what people are sure their dogs are. Just a couple days ago I asked a guy how old his puppy was and what was mixed with the Rodesian Ridgeback (I suspected boxer). He insisted his pup in no way had any ridgeback in him but was mostly boxer with some shepherd. Shepherd? He proceeds to tell me how you can see it in the pup's snout (which is where I spotted the boxer). A little while later when a ridgeback showed up they could've been related.

The one that stumped me was Australian Terrier we met at the dog park when Tuk was alive. I thought it was a cross between a Cairn and a Norwich. I'd never seen or heard of this dog before. He was a cool dog. But I've only ever met the one.

[pkcrossley]

agreed, beautiful puppy. ever since "best in show," people are crazy for those little norwich things. the ridiculous prices on norwiches compared to cairns is a real puzzle. strangely, though they resemble cairns, they are not really closely related. cairns are more closely related to airedales than they are to norwiches.

i once accosted a glen of imaal and asked if it was a cairn (i actually thought it might be a cairn cross --with shetland cattle, perhaps); also not related to cairns, though that is a real surprise, these dogs look very cairny, just big. i had never heard of glen of imaal, but the owner said that she was surprised to find, when she moved to our tiny town, that two glen of imaals lived next door. i think they are pretty rare, and very expensive. but you could pass a cairn off as one of these, at least till it was a few months old.

[janis]

I really like the look of the glen of imaals and the little Norwich. I have a cousin with an Airdale. She is a beautiful dog, I just don't like the long snouts. I just think Cairns have it over all the terriers for personality, devilry, and best in class cuteness! The beautiful gray in Idaho's picture sure looks Cairnish to me!

[Idaho Cairns]

I tried for several years to obtain a Norwich and the problem wasn't money--I had that and was willing to pay. It was the availability of puppies--every breeder I contacted had several litters of buyers so stacked up that they couldn't/wouldn't make a commitment to me of any kind. I gave up even trying, it was embarrassing and just a bit infuriating for someone like me to continue. Actually, I think the Norwich "craze" started with "Rocky" the dog that won Best of Group and then Best of Show at Westminster ten or so years ago--what a great little terrier! I think Norwich's are probably wonderful dogs and I can understand anyone that like the terrier type to want one. I like "Border's" as well--they are rough looking guys with those wirey faces and long legs--I could live with one of them, I am sure.

My Cairns are fine tho--the longer I live with them the better they get and they are "rare" enough that I get that kind of exclusive feeling one gets from having something different. Add to that the general good health and rugged nature of Cairns and you have a dog that satisfies completely.