TexasLisa Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I need some advice. We have always had mini schnauzers so our little Otis is new to us. We have a 5-year-old female schnauzer, but I fell in love with Otis the Cairn Terrier. He is 2 now, neutered, and a pretty sweet guy. But out of the home around other dogs he is extremely aggressive and very dangerous. He has pulled some aggressive stunts at home in the past towards the other dog and to us, but we have handled that and we are working on not marking in the house. But the scariest problem we have is his aggression. He's completely out of control when it comes to other dogs. We are to the point where we believe we may be in over our heads with this little dog and are considering finding a better home for him. I'd like to know if training would help? Anything I can do to keep Otis in our family, but I am fearful for children we may be having soon and his behavior... help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradl Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 It is not particularly uncommon for Cairns to be dog-aggressive. (I'm not saying it's a given or even usual, I'm just saying it's not all that uncommon). Training absolutely can help. Mostly, it will help you take an active role in directing his interest and activities when in the presence of other dogs; it will also give him practice at behaving civilly in the presence of dogs he does not like (or more likely, fears). IMO, training helps in almost areas of life with Cairns. However the human always has to be paying attention and on top of the situation. CAIRNTALK: Questions? Need help? → Support Forum Please do not use PMs for tech support CRCTC: Columbia River Cairn Terrier Club | 2025 Calendar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanford Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I am working on this issue with Ruffy and I know exactly what you are describing - with one difference. In our case, Ruffy is fine with dogs that are smaller, or his own size, but with larger dogs, Ruffy is a demon and instigates potentially dangerous confrontations. I've just begun working on this and we've actually made some progress, but it's only the beginning and we have a long way to go. The first thing I did was get a prong collar and this immediately made a tremendous difference; he is much more responsive to my commands to "leave it!" and "no!" when we encounter large dogs on our walks. I am working with a trainer and we walk Ruffy together with the trainer's large, docile, laid-back lab. The 2 dogs have accepted each other without incident and we will continue to bring Ruffy together with other large (volunteer) dogs in this manner as a way of hopefully de-fusing him. We are also newly enrolled in a basic obedience class in order to get Ruffy in a controlled environment with other dogs. (I was hoping to get him into a class with larger breeds, but that hasn't happened). Together with the collar, obedience class, working with a trainer and my attempts to be hyper-vigilant when large breeds approach, Ruffy and I are coping, but the work continues. I hope it helps you to know that I share your same issues & concerns. Perhaps my experience can start you on a route to working with Otis, so that you'll be able to keep him in your family. Good luck! FEAR THE CAIRN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Cairns Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Fort Worth has to have many off leash dog parks that are segregated as to dog size and I think, given the problem you describe, which is the lack of socialization on the part of your dog, I would take advantage of them as a training medium. Letting your Cairn socialize with larger dogs, off leash, may be the key to turning around its behavior in a natural way. Before I immersed the dog into an enclosure with several large dogs, however, I would make sure that no "dangerous" type dogs were present and preferably when there were few dogs being exercised. I have noticed with my Cairns that when they get super rambunctious, a good therapy for them is an association with larger dogs that will not back up and tolerate their attitudes. In my experience socialized larger dogs have a way of "brushing off" smaller dogs that is both firm and safe. I also believe that some, if not most dogs, are more aggressive when leashed than they are when free to make their own decisions and interactions. A dog tethered to a human can often be a completely different kettle of fish when unconstrained an on its own--especially with other dogs. Also, dog parks are good because, unlike a house or a yard, none of the dogs have a "territory" they have to defend. Proceed with caution--discuss what you are attempting to do with the other owners or, better still, arrange a meeting with some folks you know that have large dogs and exercise them together. Before you give up on your Cairn, think about giving it an opportunity to learn how to behave with other dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hheldorfer Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I heartily agree with Idaho Cairns - the dog park is a wonderful place to provide socialization and teach Otis some doggie manners. You'd probably be very surprised at how Otis would interact with other dogs in this environment, off-leash. Buffy came to us with a bad case of leash aggression; it's not completely cured yet, but has gotten much better with time, training and regular (daily, in good weather) trips to the dog park. The same little girl who was a snippy little bitch on our walks turned into the belle of the dog park the minute she entered the gate. And the park is fantastic exercise as well which could diffuse some of the pent-up aggression that Otis is carrying around. In my experience, a well-exercised dog is less prone to aggressive behavior and mischief. (Or maybe it's just that a well-exercised dog is too tired to get into mischief! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dempsy's Mom Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Good luck - I hope Otis responds and you all are happy. Elsie, Max, Meeko & Lori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkcrossley Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 i hope you will take everybody's urging seriously, this is almost without doubt an issue that will to respond to, maybe be resolved by, training. the training will be both for otis and for you. there is no reason for a dog who is happy and safe in his own home --which includes two other dogs-- to be surrendered because he is aggressive with other dogs outside the home. it is a classic problem, and has tried and true solutions. not all dogs respond to all solutions, so keep trying till you find the one that works. all of you will have to work on this. it seems to me that you may need to talk to a professional a few times for guidelines before using the dog park as a socialization environment. good luck! you should be able to get improvements pretty quickly with some coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hheldorfer Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 it seems to me that you may need to talk to a professional a few times for guidelines before using the dog park as a socialization environment. True. I've found the dog park to be the perfect outlet for Buffy, but I sometimes forget that all Cairns are not the same. A good trainer should be able to provide a better evaluation than anyone here and can give you an educated opinion on the best way to proceed. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Cairns Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 All dog parks are, in reality, is social environments for dogs. We know how dogs socialize, we see it everyday with our own dogs--they sniff each others butts, avoid or interact with each other. One of the reasons dog parks were created was to provide that social interaction--your tax money at work for your pets. Now I have no problem with "professional dog trainers" especially if you are fortunate enough to have one of these rare creatures in your community and then have the wherewithal to avail yourself of their services. The hitch is that the term "dog trainer" is very loosely thrown around as if there were a way of distinguishing between a "professional" and someone that likes dogs and had a few nights with the local Kennel Club. Many of the people in my community with a reputation of being "dog trainers" have no more qualifications or experience than I do and none of them have any where close to the experience with Cairn Terriers. No college or university in America teaches "dog training" or gives a degree in the "skill", there is no state in the Union that licenses "dog trainers". Post graduate programs in animal behavior are few and far between and normally study the behaviors of animals far more exotic than the domesticated dog. Certification of dog trainers and dog training in America is sadly left to commercial correspondence schools or internet schools, who set their own curriculum and requirements and then "graduate" students after enough time and money has been spent on the "courses". If there are ten such school operating then you have ten different curricula and ten different sets of standards for what a "professional dog trainer" is. The consumer of "professional dog training" rarely knows what they are getting with these people--some are no doubt good and capable but it is a crap shoot. I did not recommend local dog parks lightly--I have spent much time in our local one and more time in a whole range of parks as we have RV'd across the country--I use them often when we travel and well designed ones are great for dogs and owners. The most positive thing about municipal dog parks is that they normally are used by responsible pet owners, owners that realize that their dogs are both manageable and safe to be around other dogs (of course there are exceptions to that generalization--some irresponsible owners and dogs occasionally get into the parks but normally they are rooted out) so you can generally be assured that the other dogs are safe. I certainly wouldn't tell some one to use a dog park if I thought their dog was going to be harmed or harm in the process and since these situations allow for the close supervision of dogs in an enclosed space, the likelihood of injury is certainly less likely than out on the street where you really don't have any real control on who or what you meet. Plus you have the advantage of many dogs of all sizes and breeds to contend with--a good learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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